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East Fork - San Gabriel River - 7/19/08
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Taco
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 7:41 pm    Post subject:  Reply with quote

I have some great ideas on how to curb such problems.

The catch is, they're all very illegal (read, effective).
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gotta give em at least one chance to change Taco. Something like that I would support on the 3rd or 4th offense.  Laughing
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"The Mountains are the means, the man is the end; the idea is to improve the man, not to reach the top of the mountain."
"The Mountains are the means, the man is the end; the idea is to improve the man, not to reach the top of the mountain."

Dude do something with that camera so you CAN TAKE PICTURES FASTER!!
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FIGHT ON wrote:

Dude do something with that camera so you CAN TAKE PICTURES FASTER!!


caffeine of course
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JMunaretto wrote:
FIGHT ON wrote:

Dude do something with that camera so you CAN TAKE PICTURES FASTER!!


caffeine of course

caffeine is for cheaters. cheaters are flat. flat is ohio. flat is FAIL!
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TacoDelRio wrote:
That said, I don't see anything being un-civil, and I kinda don't give a crap if anyone's feelings are hurt. Cool

Laughing
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 6:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kit Fox wrote:
Then come up with a better way

Kit, I doubt you will find one here, solutions are not popular.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I should apologize to Gusto for steering your thread "off topic," on the plus side you have more post and views than most tr's!
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would rather see the forest service increase enforcement and education in the problem areas than resorting to martial law or a police state.  Why not charge $1000 for littering, just like on the freeway?

Not sure what USFS current policies are, has anyone ever sent them a letter/email on this subject?  Would be interesting to get their response.  I'm not familiar with the San G. river problem areas, so would not be the best to contact them.  Most likely a group of concerned citizens could find a solution to these problems.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

406 wrote:
I should apologize to Gusto for steering your thread "off topic," on the plus side you have more post and views than most tr's!


No worries, there.  It's always interesting when people get passionate about something, but like I heard in the movie, "Opinions are like a**holes, everyone's got one, and they all stink."


Very Happy

That said, my stinky opinion goes like this.  First off, anytime you put large amounts a people into a "group," whether it be by ethnicity or whatever, the individual is always sacrificed.  To simply say, "Hispanics are the problem" or "illegals are the problem," is a pretty broad and somewhat rediculous statement.  

Obviously most of the people who are seen at the areas closest to the foothills are going to be Hispanic because that reflects the local population.  I don't know what percent of Azusa is Hispanic, but it has to be around or over 50%, so just by shear numbers you're more likely to see Hispanics there than anyone else.  And what percent of Los Angeles is Hispanic?  The numbers have to be pretty high.  

As for illegal or legal, this is just another oversimplification.  There are plenty of illegals here who are hard working.  Some who even have sons and daughters in the military, I might add.  Up until recently there was never and government push for these people to be legalized.  It was always an "accepted" thing in areas like Los Angeles and California.  Then, ever since 9/11 and the "terrorists within our borders" mentality," it seems like every illegal alien has been a scapegoat for all of America's problems.  

I read somewhere back in the 70's there was actually a push BY our government to get folks from Mexico to come here and work in the fields of California, so I guess a lot of whether it's beneficial to have illegals or not depends on America's economic standpoint at the time - not that I"m agreeing with that mentality, by the way.  Even if they did - and I don't even think it's possible by the way - round up every single illegal in this country and sent them back to their native land, then people would start complaining about how much more expensive things would become.  Farmers, store and restaurant owners, etc. would have to hire people at higher rates, which in turn would cost the consumer more $$$.  Then people could start complaining about that too.

On a final note, I would have to agree with a previous poster about teaching people that putting trash on the ground is wrong and just how destructive it is.  This type of behavior is a LEARNED activity, and people need to be educated about it.  ALL PEOPLE.  Kids see their parents do it, so they don't see anything wrong with it.  

I would say it's a safe conjecture that there's always going to be that 10% that try to screw things up.  Everyone knows who I'm talking about... The guy that swerves in and out of traffic, the person that talks during the movie, the person that throws trash on the ground.  It doesn't matter what ethnicity, I've met people of all races who fit each one of those descriptions.  Obviously the goal of the forest service has its work cut out for them...  

Ultimately, I believe, the public doesn't care enough about these areas.  Look at the budgets for the forest service, national parks, and state parks system compared to other areas of government spending....  Heck, even California's new budget proposal for education places it somewhere around 49th in the country.

http://www.federalbudget.com/

http://home.nps.gov/applications/release/Detail.cfm?ID=721

Change has to start somewhere...

Gusto
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
As for illegal or legal, this is just another oversimplification.  There are plenty of illegals here who are hard working.  Some who even have sons and daughters in the military, I might add.  Up until recently there was never and government push for these people to be legalized.  It was always an "accepted" thing in areas like Los Angeles and California.  Then, ever since 9/11 and the "terrorists within our borders" mentality," it seems like every illegal alien has been a scapegoat for all of America's problems.  


That isn't true at all. Proposition 187 tried to do away with benefits for illegals back in 1994. It was passed with 58% of the vote. The problem was that it was poorly written, and was struck down by a federal judge. They were a burden to social services then, they are still a burden today.

Quote:
I read somewhere back in the 70's there was actually a push BY our government to get folks from Mexico to come here and work in the fields of California, so I guess a lot of whether it's beneficial to have illegals or not depends on America's economic standpoint at the time - not that I"m agreeing with that mentality, by the way.  


The population was far less back then.  Another point often used is, "illegals do the jobs that Americans wont do."  They forget to mention the second line, "at those wages."  An example is the construction industry. Wages have been depressed for honest American contractors, because they can't competer financially with contractors that hire illegals. The bad contractors, don't pay workman's comp. If a legit contractor wants to pay a worker $20 bucks an hour, he has to pay an additional $10 per hour for workmans comp.  

Quote:
Even if they did - and I don't even think it's possible by the way - round up every single illegal in this country and sent them back to their native land, then people would start complaining about how much more expensive things would become.  Farmers, store and restaurant owners, etc. would have to hire people at higher rates, which in turn would cost the consumer more $$$.  Then people could start complaining about that too.


(i'm being true to my "insensative ways,")

They should send all the fat / lazy 4th generation welfare/ section 8 people to work in the fields, and the restaurants.  This will never happen because these same people always vote (D), and no California politician wants to lose their core constituency.  

Republicans are just as guilty, because they like the "cheap labor" for their big corporate/ farm donors.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

and it's all drivin by vanity, definitely Satan's favorite sin. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtg3MwvYfEE&NR=1
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the east fork is the dirtiest place ive seen in the San Gabriels. its a shame, because it is one of my favorite places, even though it can sometimes be 90* in January.

but its not that bad once you get north of the Bridge to Nowhere.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dudley Heinsbergen wrote:
the east fork is the dirtiest place ive seen in the San Gabriels. its a shame, because it is one of my favorite places, even though it can sometimes be 90* in January.

but its not that bad once you get north of the Bridge to Nowhere.


This is good news. and it makes sense too. If you get yourself fit enough you can wade through all the crappy places to get to the areas that the general public won't go to because they aren't in shape. Can't wait till I can walk were ever I want to no matter how far it is. Very Happy  I WANNA HIKE FOREVER WITHOUT STOPPING!
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 10:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

necro post of the summer...

an excellant example of the epic battles here on eispiraten.com. one of the few i could find that hadn't been locked down by our fearless "moderatorartionator" Taco del Rio.

as much as FO was such an ass, he did keep the post count up.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 5:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lots of issues with this thread.

1. OP links to a report on SummitPost. So who cares if the topic gets hijacked, right?

2. The hijackers' discussion goes in all sorts of weird directions, one of which is particularly funny given our current cultural context: Where, indeed, is the Latino version of Bill Cosby?

Kit Fox wrote:
Remember when Bill Cosby stepped up and told black people to learn how to speak English, and to take care of their kids?  Where are the so-called "hispanic leaders" to speak up and discourage the trashing or rivers, discourage their kids from tagging the rocks (most grafitti I see is from Latin gangs)


3. And also, perhaps it's time to stop posting about Fight On, as he is no longer allowed to respond on the forum.

Regarding the issue of trash in the mountains, my main concern is the garbage heaps that illegal pot farmers leave in the canyons far away from trails, making it difficult to pack out. That shit stays there for a long time. Plus, these criminals, in their spare time, deface trees and rocks deep within the wilderness, and that really spoils my off-trail experience, especially when I can't even read what they wrote because it's in Spanish.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lol
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 10:51 am    Post subject: Pot farm trash Reply with quote

Sean wrote:
my main concern is the garbage heaps that illegal pot farmers leave in the canyons far away from trails


Now that California has legalized recreational pot, does that not put an end to clandestine pot farms? Just like the repeal of Prohibition ended illegal alcohol production.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 1:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Pot farm trash Reply with quote

RichardK wrote:
Now that California has legalized recreational pot, does that not put an end to clandestine pot farms? Just like the repeal of Prohibition ended illegal alcohol production.


It has to do, in part, with burdensome taxes and regulations. If the governmental controls prove too costly to respect, then outlaws will continue to function outside the law. For example, even though we repealed Prohibition, outlaws still produce moonshine. The taxes and regulations on producing hard liquor are very burdensome in many states. It is still a federal crime to make moonshine at home for personal consumption. So if you don't want to pay an arm and a leg for legal liquor, you might be tempted to break the law and produce your own at less expense. Likewise with marijuana.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 6:47 am    Post subject: Pot and liquor Reply with quote

When I lived in Tennessee 30 years ago, there were a few "good time" houses in certain neighborhoods. No, not that kind of good time. These places provided moonshine and gambling. Sooner or later, they all got raided. I think they were the last remnants of the moonshine industry.

Compared to fermenting grain and operating a still, growing pot is pretty easy. I did it once myself a long time ago. Stick some seeds in the ground and water. Nature does the rest. As I recall, I got a pretty good crop.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The thread was of such national significance, that Obama had to step in and issue an executive order that it would become a city park to satisfy the constitutional rights of everyone to have reparational access to 'green space' even if they sold their previous land off.

The San Gabriel Valley city park located near what was formely Heaton Flats will feature the Hilda Solis visitor center at the bottom of Hwy39 to welcome 'recreators', along with the  Judy Chu glass walkway and the Obama 'forest bathing' garden.  Its 'your land' now...if you want to mess this land up, you can mess this land up. Except for the nice Starbucks alongside an REI store alongside DNC offices with the Hillary Clinton statue  for your enjoyment.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AW wrote:
The San Gabriel Valley city park located near what was formely Heaton Flats will feature the Hilda Solis visitor center at the bottom of Hwy39 to welcome 'recreators', along with the Judy Chu glass walkway and the Obama 'forest bathing' garden.


Already purchased my tickets for the annual Gorpcore fashion show on the Judy Chu walkway.



I nominate AW for Chief Thread Hijacker.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sean wrote:
I nominate AW for Chief Thread Hijacker.


I second the nomination.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice trip down the East Fork! I don't know the hell happened to the thread, but that was an impressive trip. Thanks for sharing it.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 6:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

HikeUp wrote:
Sean wrote:
I nominate AW for Chief Thread Hijacker.


I second the nomination.



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AW must be out squatching or we must have offended him! lol
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HikeUp wrote:
AW must be out squatching or we must have offended him! lol


Squatchy is hijacking a thread? 100% on target lol. Are the Allstate 'mayhem' commericals that old? We could go back to the era when parents told their kids 'dont stay out too late, or squatchy will get you'....or 'dont wander off too far!'. It was far more communicative that the squatchster would come to represent what could go wrong. Unlike Santa Claus, the squatchster is conspiracy theory....so no one has been able to disprove its existence.

So when someone goes off trail, if they think WWSG...which way would Squatch like you to go?... do they know?. Not the best example, since Squatch's ability lies in its predator status, but pretty effective for a pr campaign and navigation education simplification. For example, the predator vs prey is the schematic for cutting edge BNT(be no trace)

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sean wrote:

I nominate AW for Chief Thread Hijacker.


I like the direction you took the walkway, but I was referring to the Cattle Canyon improvement project, which the purpose of it predates the monument strategy. Its the whole reason for the monument push.

Now if its ok to go futuristic and mention the relatively new RNR demand, then I dont mind being chief hijacker Smile
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lol
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AW wrote:
I like the direction you took the walkway, but I was referring to the Cattle Canyon improvement project, which the purpose of it predates the monument strategy. Its the whole reason for the monument push.

Now if its ok to go futuristic and mention the relatively new RNR demand, then I dont mind being chief hijacker Smile


Frankly I don't see much harm in reducing this ancient thread to Sasquatchian politics. I think it's hilarious. But we already have two or three serious threads about the Monument and related projects. So if you want to get more serious, perhaps we should take it to one of the other threads, for the sake of context and continuity. Or start a new topic for the CC project. Or not. It's up to you.

As Chief Thread Hijacker, it's really up to you to take hostages, issue demands and set the course of events.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AW wrote:
So when someone goes off trail, if they think WWSG...which way would Squatch like you to go?... do they know?. Not the best example, since Squatch's ability lies in its predator status, but pretty effective for a pr campaign and navigation education simplification. For example, the predator vs prey is the schematic for cutting edge BNT(be no trace)

Link


You just blew my mind connecting Squatchy to BNT. I didn't realize how thoroughly he inspires new technologies...and old campaigns.


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