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Gabrielino Trail (Santa Anita - West Fork - Arroyo Seco)
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Uncle Rico



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Location: Pleasantville

PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 5:02 pm    Post subject: Lower Arroyo Seco  Reply with quote

This afternoon I wanted to see if I could get to Oakwilde from JPL along the Gabrieleno Trail. I couldn't. I got stopped at the Debris Dam above Paul Little. Did I just miss the trail around the Debris Dam or has it been completely obliterated by the Station Fire and subsequent flooding? Is the only realistic by-pass up Brown Mountain Road and down Ken Burton? And if you get to Oakwilde (or maybe what is left of it), what does the trail look like above there?
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cougarmagic
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Location: Now I have a quote under my name, Taco.

PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You didn't miss it, it's gone.

There is no trail above the dam, and most of Oakwilde is buried in new streamed/debris flow.  No more stone foundations.  Its brief history in the Arroyo has been erased.

I haven't been on the Ken Burton trail, so I don't know about that.
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BrownMtnBob



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PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I haven't been on Ken Burton in a few years....but from what I understand, it's essentially no more.   I was going to bike it the other day, and take the gabrieleno back down to JPL.  It was very rough going 5 years ago.....so I figured it would be ridiculous now.

I thought Oakwilde was okay though?  Maybe I heard wrong.  My understanding was that the trail from the 2 down into the Arroyo was still intact.   I'm probably wrong though.  Maybe wishful thinking.
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mattmaxon
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Location: Out on the trail.....

PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 7:24 am    Post subject: Re: Lower Arroyo Seco Reply with quote

Uncle Rico wrote:
... And if you get to Oakwilde (or maybe what is left of it), what does the trail look like above there?


You can scramble up the dam on the east side.

But the trail such as it was is no more above the dam last time I was there. It likely has not go better over the subsequent years

Above Oakwilde I cannot say but lots of people have been coming down from Switzers.

The trail to Bear Cyn Trail is open and in relatively good shape

Oakwild is under several feet of debris flows

This was 12/2010 (or so I'm told Wink )


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Uncle Rico



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Location: Pleasantville

PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 7:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the beta everyone. I guess my trip was a fool's errand. And I don't know why I assumed Ken Burton is still be there when the Gabrieleno isn't.
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walker



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 11:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The section of trail from Paul Little up the canyonside and around the dam is still there and negotiable, it's just in a state of total abandonment since the closure area begins right around there. The turnoff is buried under mounds of fallen timber so it's easy to walk right past it.

The upper portion of the Ken Burton trail is walkable, the trailbed is in pretty good shape, but the chaparral is starting to swallow it up. I imagine the trail gets worse the further down it you go.

Looking down into the canyon from above, that whole area looks pretty devastated. There used to be a big debris field above the dam, but now it looks like the sand flats extend all the way up beyond Oakwilde and halfway up Dark Canyon as well. It would probably take a catastrophic event to clear some of that debris out.
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Uncle Rico



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Location: Pleasantville

PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 6:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The turnoff is buried under mounds of fallen timber so it's easy to walk right past it.


Well, that's exactly what I did. May have to go up for a second look.

Btw to no one in particular and everyone in general, what purpose does that Debris Dam serve anymore other than degrading the canyon above it? Or is that a third-rail subject?
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tracker



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Location: Antelope Valley

PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 8:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Debris basins are government employment projects. Even if they were built for free by the CCC or private property owners, they still require decades of maintenance. They don't really accomplish anything but it's real easy to convince people they do. Now that most are at the end of their service lives they will provide decades more of employment opportunities. Just think of all the EIR's and bickering between subject-matter experts that will be required before the demolition can begin. Then there's the post-demolition monitoring for compliance with CEQA and the ESA. All to take a canyon that was turned into a meadow, and turn it back into a canyon.
Seriously - The one in Malibu is 100' tall. The removal cost is estimated at a million dollars a foot. Shocked
 Smile Sorry. Sometimes government employees have to get things off their chests on Monday mornings; to prepare for another week. I'll go numb and shut up in the next few minutes.Laughing
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Uncle Rico



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Location: Pleasantville

PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Seriously - The one in Malibu is 100' tall. The removal cost is estimated at a million dollars a foot.


The $140M to tear down Matilija is looking like a freakin' bargain. Or we can just along the dotted line.

http://www.vcstar.com/news/2013/m...xpected-for-matilija-dam-removal/
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tracker



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Location: Antelope Valley

PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I quoted some old numbers for the Rindge because a million dollars a foot had a good ring to it. The Matilija looks like a lot bigger project. You never know. Sometimes Mother Nature has no respect for EIR's, committees, and procedures. She may make the hard decisions for us.
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PackerGreg



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 11:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you go up The Arroyo, steer clear of the bloated, stinky, rotting, sand-encrusted corpse of the socialism salesman. If you make it past the flies, the creek runs free and clear.
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Hikin_Jim
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 11:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tracker wrote:
Sometimes Mother Nature has no respect for EIR's, committees, and procedures. She may make the hard decisions for us.
That's what happened in Rubio Canyon.  Rubio had some nice falls which were buried by a bungled attempt to blast a platform for a water line.  There was all kinds of debate how to restore the canyon and who was going to pay for it.  Ultimately, mother nature took care of us after some heavy rains.

For $1M/foot, I'd probably just live with the dam.

HJ
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Uncle Rico



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Location: Pleasantville

PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 2:23 pm    Post subject: Trail Bees Reply with quote

Last Sunday I encountered a shitload of bees as I transitioned onto the Gabrieleno Trail where it splits from the Sturtevant Trail near Sturtevant Camp. There is a seep or some other water source at that location which may have been the attraction, but there is also a downed log on the other side of the wet area that the bees may have colonized/might be colonizing. Honestly, I couldnít tell what the deal was, but I didnít feel like tempting fate during swarming season. So I found a less unpleasant work-around that involved crab-crawling up a very steep and loose embankment some 20 yards up-trail from the bees.

Anywho, if youíre in that area, you may want to proceed with caution.
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Breabonnie



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 11:28 am    Post subject: Bees... Reply with quote

I hiked there and saw the down log but not the bees on an earlier hike just prior to spring.  So this must be a new thing.  Thanks for the "heads up" about it.
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Sitting Bull



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Location: Syldavia

PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2014 6:25 pm    Post subject: Gabrielino Trail to Royal Gorge Reply with quote

Yesterday I attempted to hike to Royal Gorge from Gould Mesa Campground.   After Nino Rest Area and Paul Little Picnic Area, we ended up at Brown Mountain Dam.  I searched in vain for the turn off to continue on the Gabrielino trail.

I am going to attempt it again, but has anyone hiked this stretch recently?  Am I missing something?  Where is the turn off?  I did see one fork, but ended up right back at the dam after following it.
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dima



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PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2014 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was there maybe 2 years ago. The trail splits off to the right immediately before the Paul Little picnic area. The fork is right behind the ruined bathroom. There was a "trail closed" sign there, but the trail was passable all the way around the dam, until it rejoins the river. I ran out of time, so didn't continue further up. In any case, this area is mapped well in openstreetmap:

http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/34.2374/-118.1824
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walker



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PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2014 11:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was up there a month or two ago and it's passable. The trail is right where Dima says, but concealed under piles of deadfall and other debris. The trail is navigable, but hasn't been worked since the fire. There are a pair of minor washouts you have to skirt or cross. You climb the hillside, pass the dam and as the trail descends back towards the creek you enter an oak grove and the trail eventually disappears into a bunch of poison oak.

If your goal is to reach the Royal Gorge, it remains a long way up canyon from there and from the little I've seen, travel in the canyon bottom above the dam is a bit of a romp through the bushes. It would probably be a long slog through all the sandy sediment and debris backed up for about a mile or so above the dam.

Maybe descending the Gabrieleno from Switzer's is worth considering? I recently hiked it to the saddle above Long Canyon and the trail was in good condition up to that point. Not sure what kind of shape the descent into Long Canyon is in. Or you could follow the Bear Canyon trail and just continue down the creek from the junction with Bear Canyon.

There's a pour-off in the Royal Gorge that presents an obstacle. There used to be a rope off to one side, but who knows what things are like down there now.
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walker



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PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2014 12:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay never mind. Looks like the Gabrieleno below Bear Canyon Trail (and probably all the way to Brown Mt. Dam) is still part of the station fire closure area. Oh, well.
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Sitting Bull



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PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2014 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do know that there was a big announcement re. opening of most Station Fire closure areas as of Memorial Day Weekend over on Modern Hiker.  I wonder if that includes the Gabrielino.  I'd like to hike it down from Switzer's area or even Red Box.
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andthewalrus



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Location: Pasadena, CA

PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know "somebody" who tried the hike to royal gorge last year from Gould Mesa. A lot of stream walking to end up about 1/4 mile shy of the gorge with a large, bushy tree blocking a narrow section. The limbs were too thin and springy to climb on and too thick to climb through. "They" tried until getting bit or stung by something, swearing loudly, and turning around. Bring a machete or at least long sleeves.
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Herping Hiker



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PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2016 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's now open up to where Ken Burton connects to it but not beyond it (north).
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psykokid



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Location: San Gabriel

PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Any new beta on conditions between Oakwilde and Switzer? Thinking about doing a day hike of the Gabrielino trail for giggles now that the Sierra is out for a while until snow accumulates and firms up and conditions stabilize..
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hillbasher



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Location: San Dimas

PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Psyko, did you ever find out any info about this?
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psykokid



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PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 10:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hillbasher wrote:
Hey Psyko, did you ever find out any info about this?


No, haven't had a chance to check out that section yet.

I did do a loop starting/ending at Chantry today. For the most part the trail is in good shape where I hiked today. Took the Gabrielino trail all the way to the junction with Kenyon-Devore and hiked that to Wilson. Down the Mt. Wilson trail and took the ridgeline to San Olene instead of Winter Creek back to Chantry.

The Gabrielino trail is pretty rough between Devore and West Fork trail camps. Passable, but lots of scrambling up, over, around, and through deadfall, blowdowns and snags in that section. Lots of Poison oak in the shady areas starting to encroach on the trail in some sections. The rest before Devore and after West Fork were in pretty good shape. A couple of fallen trees across the trail here and there, but nothing like the other section.
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psykokid



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Location: San Gabriel

PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ran the section between Red Box and Valley Forge this morning as I was on a loop starting/ending at Eaton Saddle. Trail was in really good shape, water was flowing really well with a few stream crossings. Passed a few people hiking back up to Red Box after staying at Valley Forge or West Fork Campground.

Valley Forge from the bottom up to Eaton Saddle was a different story. Very overgrown with a lot of stuff encroaching the trail. Fortunately only saw a couple of isolated clumps of poodle dog on that section.
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Sean
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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

psykokid wrote:
Valley Forge from the bottom up to Eaton Saddle was a different story. Very overgrown with a lot of stuff encroaching the trail. Fortunately only saw a couple of isolated clumps of poodle dog on that section.


Thanks. I tried Valley Forge awhile ago after a rain. I got drenched by the damp, overhanging brush. Then I noticed some poodle dog and gave up and turned around. Wasn't in the mood for PD.

Sounds like the PD is mostly gone now. Guess I'll give it another shot.
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psykokid



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Location: San Gabriel

PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 10:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sean wrote:


Thanks. I tried Valley Forge awhile ago after a rain. I got drenched by the damp, overhanging brush. Then I noticed some poodle dog and gave up and turned around. Wasn't in the mood for PD.

Sounds like the PD is mostly gone now. Guess I'll give it another shot.


It's actually not in bad shape, just overgrown due to all the vegetation getting a super dose of rain this winter. The majority of the trail follows an old road bed up the hill so the slope is never really too terribly steep. It's fairly shaded as well, except for a few sections that got burned during the station fire. A little time with a set of loppers and a machete would go a long way...
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