EisPiraten.com Forum Index EisPiraten.com
San Gabriel Mountains Forum
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch 
 MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   Join! (free) Join! (free)
 ProfileProfile 
 Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Main Menu
Home
Forum
New Topics
Angeles Crest Highway (CA-2)
Cottonwood Lakes Basin
Map of John Muir's route in the San Gabriels
Rattlesnakes
Have you forest bathed? (Not what you think)
Nearest water to Lupine?
Big Santa Anita Canyoneering
The Baldy Zoo
BABY SHEEP OMG
COLVER PEAK 5511'
Links Menu
Welcome
Open discussion board for activities in the San Gabriel Mountains.
Ertug Ergun lost at Stonyvale
A hiker named Ertug Ergun (look it up) was lost in the vicinity of Stonyvale picnic area on June 17, 2012. No one knows where he was headed, but Fox-Condor is one possibility, so peer over the edge on some of those precipices and see if you can find him. We and Search & Rescue have covered the river and stone and grizzly flat trails pretty well, but the trail to Fox is in the worst shape.

We descended the trail from Condor via Fox after the Station Fire and it is passable but there are several bad washouts, especially between miles 3 and 5 (the markers burned). One is within 1/4 mile of the spring around 3 miles up and is a 20 ft wide and 10 ft deep notch in the trail. There are several others not as wide and look somewhat OK but are much more dangerous slide hazards where you could fall a long way. Be very careful until the trail can be worked on. S&R put some men on the trail about 2.5 miles up, but they didn't hike up to the worst parts of the trail, which are past that spring.
Ertug Ergun lost at Stonyvale
Ertug Ergun missing in Angeles Nat'l Forest

Did he leave any itinerary or anything?  Did he say when he planned to return?

HJ
Ertug Ergun lost at Stonyvale
There is not a lot of info to go on. News reports say he was an avid hiker and bakersfieldnow mentions talk of Suicide canyon, without saying why they mentioned that.
http://www.bakersfieldnow.com/new...-160141495.html?m=y&smobile=y

Its also mentioned here...
http://www.alaturkaonline.com/los...i-turk-muhendis-halen-bulunamadi/

We need to know if the attention should focus to the 5 canyoneering trade routes on Lukens.
Ertug Ergun lost at Stonyvale
It appears he is not a canyoneer. He arrived at about 8:30, contrary to some earlier reports (just spoke to a guy at S&R about this) so it's more likely he went on one of the trails. no he didn't leave an itinerary.
some S&R people were dropped at condor today around 9 to walk down from the peak, and we are going to look up Grizzly flat trail for the second time tomorrow.
people have been all over the canyon and the stone trail. I think fox is more likely at this point, but will have a more thorough look around griz flat tomorrow. call me at 818-352-7595 if anyone decides they want to join us tomorrow.
Ertug Ergun lost at Stonyvale
I am Ertug's boss and have known him for about 7 years both in Turkey and in California for the last two years. He is not especially adventurous, and I would not have expceted him to be far from known and fairly easy trails.
There was no indications from his car that he changed into hiking boots or that he had brought food along etc. He had some survival skills having spent 6 months military training with the special forces as a conscript in Turkey.  
We know from his car GPS that he arrived at the site at 8:23am on 17th, having driven straight from Bakersfield.
His cell phone was last 'seen' by the Pasadena tower at about 2pm on 17th. As I understand it, this tower does not 'see' into the valley so it may suggest that he was at or near the top of one of the higher hills in the area. Any info call Jim Hussey on 661 330 4130
Ertug Ergun lost at Stonyvale
I have been out looking.

Last Sunday and today

I saw no sign anyone has been in either places in some time

I have as the other forum members well know, hiked the Stone Cyn Trail for many years, having summited Mt Lukens now 1040+ times

I have also maintained the Stone Cyn trail for 15 years or so

I met both SAR teams on Saturday and Sunday last week and they thoroughly checked stone canyon trail and the unnamed canyon we call Stone+1

http://www.dankat.com/advents/stnpls.htm

This is my route last Sunday and Today

http://www.everytrail.com/view_trip.php?trip_id=1650352

http://www.everytrail.com/view_trip.php?trip_id=1650355

We're racking out brains trying to sort out this puzzle.

If I had any Idea where else to look I'd do it.
found
We discovered his body in Vasquez creek about 2/3 of the way down, below 4 or 5 waterfalls that one usually needs to use a rope to descend safely and above the last two waterfalls which absolutely need a rope to descend safely. He was missing one shoe and his glasses. May he rest in peace.

After experiencing the nightmare of brush that Grizzly Flat trail has become, we believe the most likely scenario is he went up the Stone Canyon trail which is in great shape and came down Grizzly Flat trail, not realizing the GF trail is almost impossible to find if you don't know where to look w/o a gps track. Once in Grizzly Flat, going down to Vasquez creek seems most reasonable, and is also maybe a good choice when one is out of water, but descending waterfalls you can't climb up is a very dangerous idea.
Re: found
Hi, I am an old friend of Ertug, currently based in United Kingdom. I became aware and was following the developments since 5 days. First of all thank you very much for your search and rescue efforts. Probably more details about this incident will be given to his family via the police and I can learn afterwards but if you could reply briefly to few questions that I have, I will be grateful.

As his boss has mentioned before few messages back, Ertug cannot be considered as a hiker and it is unlikely that he had the necessary equipment with him. He wouldn't walk/hike too long in the first place, it is not his character.

He is a very rational, logical person and taking the risk of descending through these dangerous routes is unexpected from him. Do you think that he got lost and got really desperate? Is it possible to rule out any wild animal attack or human involvement?  

Also, could you please tell me if cell phones have signal across the routes that you considered that he has taken? Or have you found his cell phone with him? His phone has GPS but I understand it is useless without using a pre-saved GPS track as these routes are particularly difficult to find.

Once again thank you very much to you and all the people involved in search and rescue efforts.
Umut


zarka wrote:
We discovered his body in Vasquez creek about 2/3 of the way down, below 4 or 5 waterfalls that one usually needs to use a rope to descend safely and above the last two waterfalls which absolutely need a rope to descend safely. He was missing one shoe and his glasses. May he rest in peace.

After experiencing the nightmare of brush that Grizzly Flat trail has become, we believe the most likely scenario is he went up the Stone Canyon trail which is in great shape and came down Grizzly Flat trail, not realizing the GF trail is almost impossible to find if you don't know where to look w/o a gps track. Once in Grizzly Flat, going down to Vasquez creek seems most reasonable, and is also maybe a good choice when one is out of water, but descending waterfalls you can't climb up is a very dangerous idea.
Ertug Ergun lost at Stonyvale
His parents and relatives back in Turkey and the guys he worked with here in California and Australia would like to thank all of you volunteers and professionals who have looked tirelessly for him ovr the last two weeks.
Re: found
Umut wrote:
He is a very rational, logical person and taking the risk of descending through these dangerous routes is unexpected from him. Do you think that he got lost and got really desperate?


I just got back from Zakra's house. What he says makes sense to me

Hiking up Stone Cyn, east across Mt Lukens to Grizzly Flat. Cannot locate the trail down and try to descend Vasquez Creek to Big Tujunga and to Stonyvale.


Umut wrote:
Is it possible to rule out any wild animal attack or human involvement?


I think that will have to left to the authorities, an examination of the cell phone may well have important information.

Umut wrote:
Also, could you please tell me if cell phones have signal across the routes that you considered that he has taken? Or have you found his cell phone with him? His phone has GPS but I understand it is useless without using a pre-saved GPS track as these routes are particularly difficult to find.


In part there is celluar service along the top of Mt Lukens in places. But the area where  he was found definitely has no cell service

I wouldn't say the GPS is useless without a pre-saved track but it requires experience

Umut wrote:
Once again thank you very much to you and all the people involved in search and rescue efforts.


I know Zakra and his wife well and they felt as I do he had to be found.  I too am grateful for their continued and ultimately successful efforts.

I am so sorry this turned out as it did, please relay my most sincere regrets to all more could not be done. As well as my sorrow for their loss of a friend, & loved one
Re: found
zarka wrote:
We discovered his body
I'm very sorry to hear of his passing,  Sad  but it is for the best that he has been found.  May he rest in peace.

HJ
Ertug Ergun lost at Stonyvale
If it is any consolation to anyone, he died in what I consider to be one of the most beautiful places in the Angeles Forest. I have often looked up at that exact place and said to myself, "this is a very beautiful canyon."


I can't answer many of the questions that will only be discovered from his cell phone and the medical examiner, but the reason I checked where I did is because I know the trail is not maintained since the fire, and I suspected that if someone were to plan a loop or get a ride to take a reasonable 4 mile hike from highway 2 and rejoin his car at Stonyvale, which might have put his cell phone in view of a tower somewhere, he would have a very hard time finding the trail off of Grizzly Flat.

When I try to look at Grizzly Flat from the eyes of a novice on a very hot day in desperate need of water, descending to where it appears he went to the creek would be the "natural" choice. Unfortunately, after you obtain water, that way down leads only to cliffs and you have to ascend a long way across a lot of dead and down trees or up a very steep slope in the other direction to get to a safe way out. Even if you know where the trail is you have to walk through dead trees and plants overgrowing everything to go anywhere. It is not obvious in any way the best direction to go unless you have a good topo map and know how to read it. Even then it may take some time to look carefully from many vantage points to figure out where you are before you find the trail.

We almost didn't complete the hike because of the obstacles and the heat. We persisted because we knew it would be cool and wet instead of hot and brushy and one of the few places we thought he had a chance of survival. We are sad it ended this way and hope to learn as well what went wrong so we can educate others how to hike safely.
thank you!
Dear all, I am Ertug's cousin...
I couldn't bring myself together to write anything here earlier, but have been following everything written.
I would like to thank everybody, especially Zarka and his wife, Matt, and all the volunteers, professionals, Ertug's boss Gerry and Jim - also for still helping us to get him back to Turkey -, and his colleagues, Aydin Topcu Turkish Consulate General in Los Angeles, for your tireless efforts and not giving up until finding him. All this time family members haven't been able to join your efforts physically, we did not want slow down the process, but we all appreciate with everything you did for Ertug, and for us. I hope one day I can personally come and meet you all and thank you in person.
Ertug was a brilliant young man with a beautiful mind, hard working and happy with a great sense of humour, we will miss him so much. Seeing the picture above, and reading Zarka's heartfelt writing, I believe he was happy when we lost him...
I, again, thank you all from the bottom of my heart on behalf of my family,
Fulden
Ertug Ergun lost at Stonyvale
Thank you for your kind words. We are very concerned about the safety of that trail between Stonyvale and Grizzly Flat. Only 2 weeks before Ertug went missing we were talking to the USFS volunteer coordinator to find out how we might help do some much needed maintenance on the trail. I think this underscores the importance of it. Just last night we noticed another car parked there overnight, which is a very unusual occurrence. My wife will also be sending some information and lessons learned to http://traditionalmountaineering.org/ on the subject of hiking alone and how it can be done safely. If there are any other details about the circumstances of his hike that are revealed from his cell phone or other sources, we would be grateful to hear of them so we can all learn how to be more safe.
Re: thank you!
Fulden wrote:
Dear all, I am Ertug's cousin...
I couldn't bring myself together to write anything here earlier, but have been following everything written.
I would like to thank everybody, especially Zarka and his wife, Matt, and all the volunteers, professionals, Ertug's boss Gerry and Jim - also for still helping us to get him back to Turkey -, and his colleagues, Aydin Topcu Turkish Consulate General in Los Angeles, for your tireless efforts and not giving up until finding him. All this time family members haven't been able to join your efforts physically, we did not want slow down the process, but we all appreciate with everything you did for Ertug, and for us. I hope one day I can personally come and meet you all and thank you in person.
Ertug was a brilliant young man with a beautiful mind, hard working and happy with a great sense of humour, we will miss him so much. Seeing the picture above, and reading Zarka's heartfelt writing, I believe he was happy when we lost him...
I, again, thank you all from the bottom of my heart on behalf of my family,
Fulden


I wasnt involved in the search, but if there is a silver lining in this particular incident, it was the handy coincidence of saving a drowning baby.

Baby Survives Near Drowning in Angeles National Forest (Photos)
http://montrose.patch.com/article...-fine-after-rescue#photo-10522350
"...The Search and Rescue Team had deployed in the area just before 5 p.m., Friday, when minutes after re-starting the search for missing Bakersfield resident Ertug Ergun, search and rescue member Janet Henderson noticed the baby floating face down in the river.

"Henderson and I started running upstream when the mother grabbed the lifeless baby from the water. The mother handed me the baby, who was not breathing, limp, and blue in color," Leum said. Leum then performed proper resuscitation efforts on the baby....."
Ertug Ergun lost at Stonyvale
Dear All,

I am a work colleague of Fulden and we have been following this forum for our main source of information.

I would firstly like to start off by saying that I had the pleasure of meeting Ertug when he came to see Fulden in London last year. He was an amazing person full of life very kind, gentle and very polite. Not many people in this world can be defined as a true gentleman however Ertug was definitely an example of how someone should act towards other people. His kindness is a reflection of the way he has been brought up by his family in which I see the reflection in Fulden and the rest of her family. To be able to work with someone with such a clean heart is a pleasure and honour and I am sure Gerry and Jim can also say the same about Ertug.

When the tragic news broke out that he was missing we tried to stay positive. News in which a baby girl was resuscitated and brang back to life for us was a glimpse of good things to come. If Ertug was not missing then a mother may have lost her child that day and there is nothing more painful in life than to lose your child. We know this as Ertug's mother has also lost her child. Yes we have lost Ertug but if there is anything positive we can take from any of this is the fact that his actions have meant that a baby girl who has the whole of her life ahead of her can now live and look forward to it. Maybe it was a sacrifice written in the heavens only god may know.

Ertug, as explained by his family members and friends was a very logical and calculated person he is someone who knows right from wrong and also someone who as I am aware had carried out his military service in Turkey as a Commando (or equivalent). There are a lot of questions in my mind as to why? and how could this be possible? (My initial reaction to getting lost was to think I would personally just turn back the way I came) however the autopsy results will clarify a lot of these questions in which we can only speculate in our minds.

I would like to start off by sincerely thanking each and every one of you on this forum as you have taken your time out to write a comment which shows that you care. I hope you are aware that indirectly you have helped us to gain valuable information in regards to the search and rescue operation for Ertug and have made the whole ordeal a lot more easier to cope with.

I would like to thank Mark aka "Zarka" if I am not mistaken for your constant efforts with your wife and also Max (Excuse me if the names are miss spelt). I mean just informing us of what is happening is good enough and deserves a thank you but actually taking part in the search and rescue and actually finding Ertug, I mean words cannot describe how thankful I am on a personal note. You my Sir are another example to be followed by and I wish everyone involved happiness success but most importantly good health to you and your families. It would be an absolute pleasure and honour to meet any of you if you ever happen to come to London.

I would also like to thank the Turkish Embassy and Mr Aydin in particular for his constant efforts for making sure that the search and rescue was not called off however saying that Mark and the team were just as valuable in this effort to find Ertug in which you did. I would also like to thank the Search and rescue team as well as there efforts have been flawless and also anyone else reading this who was also involved in trying to find Ertug. May god bless all of your souls.

I cannot see the previous posts by typing this but even when I saw the person whom put links to show the trail they tracked I just thought to myself, wow!. It was very touching to see that you are putting your all in trying to find Ertug.

I would now like to thank Jim and Gerry (Again apologies for any misspelling)  and sincerely appreciate your ongoing efforts in the arrangements of sending Ertug back home. Your efforts and concerns of Ertug will not be forgotten.

I know Ertug is now in heaven looking down upon us I wish he may rest in peace (Yattığın yer nur mekanin cennet olsun guzel kardesim).


Kindest regards to you all.
Ertug Ergun lost at Stonyvale
Hello to all,

I am Ertug's friend in Turkey. Ertug always used to talk little but making the point. Now I understand the reason, he had a short time to make long sentences.

I will follow his way by keeping my sentences short. Does anyone have any idea when the investigation is going to come to an end, and is there any place (link, phone, etc.) that we can follow the progress? And after the investigation is complete, how long will it take to send him back home?

We started to miss him already!

Ozgur Erkent
Ertug Ergun lost at Stonyvale
I want to express my condolences on your loss of a good friend and loved one.  I'm friends with the people who found him.  They held hope that they could find him and rescue him in time (even after two weeks) and were very saddened to find otherwise.  

I'm so sorry for your loss.  Our mountains are beautiful, but rugged and treacherous.  Conditions change very fast, and even those of us who live nearby and call the area "home" are surprised and caught off guard sometimes.  

I wish you peace and comfort and that the pain of grief fades over time and is replaced with fond memories of your friend.

-Johanna
Re: found
Hi Zarka,

I am a frequent hiker at San Gabriel and local mountains around, also I am originally Turkish, moved to California from Canada a few years ago.

I hiked several times to Mt. Lukens from Deukmejian side. I was searching online the trails on the other side, I saw posts regarding Ertug's death.

I just would like to hike to the same location where you found Ertug, as his would be friend if I knew him before.

I wonder if you would like to hike with me to the same location.

Thank you,
Mark

PS. I lived almost the same incident last year, descended into a creek ravine, skid down over rocks, but I was just lucky.

mchildir@gmail.com
213-321-9569
http://www.everytrail.com/profile.php?user_id=433203



zarka wrote:
We discovered his body in Vasquez creek about 2/3 of the way down, below 4 or 5 waterfalls that one usually needs to use a rope to descend safely and above the last two waterfalls which absolutely need a rope to descend safely. He was missing one shoe and his glasses. May he rest in peace.

After experiencing the nightmare of brush that Grizzly Flat trail has become, we believe the most likely scenario is he went up the Stone Canyon trail which is in great shape and came down Grizzly Flat trail, not realizing the GF trail is almost impossible to find if you don't know where to look w/o a gps track. Once in Grizzly Flat, going down to Vasquez creek seems most reasonable, and is also maybe a good choice when one is out of water, but descending waterfalls you can't climb up is a very dangerous idea.
Ertug Ergun lost at Stonyvale
Perhaps some day we will do that. We just hiked up there last weekend to see if we could discover where his error was exactly. I think it was a fork in the road where a tree had fallen over the correct fork to take, and the clear fork was the wrong way to go, but the trail/road still looked very good for some time. It also seems very likely that when the trail got really bad with dozens of trees across the road he didn't consult his map, which is a shame. He continued down a difficult trail, and about at the point a normal person would have given up, there is a cairn, which was put there by canyoneers indicating the way down if you are going to go rappelling, and there is a slightly worn trail where we normally go down, but you really need ropes to go this way. I think these few things were enough to make him think he was on the right trail still, but he should have consulted his map. It is not a good idea to descend waterfalls if you can't see a way back up, and if you are lost, instead of following the water in the creek, you may be better off if you follow it from a ridge that overlooks it, as you can see more and won't get stuck.  

In this case, we moved the tree that is across the safe trail, put logs across the lesser used road that goes to the rappelling route, and I put up red arrows in a few places where it's not obvious where to go.
Ertug
Hi Zarka,

Thank you for the reply, appreciated.

I wonder if you have the GPS recordings of these trails, both forks.

Mark


zarka wrote:
Perhaps some day we will do that. We just hiked up there last weekend to see if we could discover where his error was exactly. I think it was a fork in the road where a tree had fallen over the correct fork to take, and the clear fork was the wrong way to go, but the trail/road still looked very good for some time. It also seems very likely that when the trail got really bad with dozens of trees across the road he didn't consult his map, which is a shame. He continued down a difficult trail, and about at the point a normal person would have given up, there is a cairn, which was put there by canyoneers indicating the way down if you are going to go rappelling, and there is a slightly worn trail where we normally go down, but you really need ropes to go this way. I think these few things were enough to make him think he was on the right trail still, but he should have consulted his map. It is not a good idea to descend waterfalls if you can't see a way back up, and if you are lost, instead of following the water in the creek, you may be better off if you follow it from a ridge that overlooks it, as you can see more and won't get stuck.  

In this case, we moved the tree that is across the safe trail, put logs across the lesser used road that goes to the rappelling route, and I put up red arrows in a few places where it's not obvious where to go.
Ertug Ergun lost at Stonyvale
I will work on that, and post it some time soon, it is in several files. What are you most interested in: the canyoneering rappelling routes, the hiking routes that don't require rope, both, hiking from Vogel & Stoneyvale, hiking from the 2 or the fire road?
Ertug
Hi Zarka,

I don't have canyoneering experience, but I climbed many times from ravines to the upper trails around Brant library in Glendale over the animal tracks.

Particularly, I would like to see the trail that Ertug had lost his life, this spring I had a similar incident and I was lucky, wish I knew the search activities for him, I would join you guys.

Thank you in advance,
Mark


zarka wrote:
I will work on that, and post it some time soon, it is in several files. What are you most interested in: the canyoneering rappelling routes, the hiking routes that don't require rope, both, hiking from Vogel & Stoneyvale, hiking from the 2 or the fire road?

Page 1 of 1
Categories
Trip Reports
Mountain Talk
Off-topic
Popular Topics
Islip Saddle - South Fork - Vincent Gap - PCT Loop
EisPiraten's Quiz #1
Calamity Peak (5800')
Rattlesnakes
Hiker stalked by predator?
TAHQUITZ PEAK
Feds Taking Comments on Status of San Gabriel NM
PCT: Onyx Summit to the Whitewater Preserve, April 2017
CUCAMONGA PEAK ON 4TH OF JULY
C-46A debris in Punchbowl Canyon

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group

"Their only motive was a great ideal; this was what linked together mountaineers so widely dissimilar in background and so diverse in character."
Maurice Herzog, Annapurna