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CA-39 (San Gabriel Canyon Road)
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greg_fs



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Location: LC / Bako

PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 5:17 pm    Post subject:  Reply with quote

I don't know, if you walk down hwy 39 you get the impression the mountains will restore it to its natural state in not too much time - the rock slides appear to be near constant.
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robnokshus



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Location: Burbank

PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Elwood wrote:
"I hope this doesn't mean fewer urban burritos north of Crystal Lake!"


Sorry, but it's this sort of comment that makes people living in communities like Azusa feel that they are being banned from their forest by people who don't like them for just looking different.


Ever been to the San Gabriel River?

I think what most people don't like are dirty diapers, broken beer bottles and MOUNTAINS of trash left by people who treat the forest as if it were their back yard (or front yard depending on the neighborhood).

I'll tell you what I'll do ARM; let's meet at the mouth of San Gabriel Canyon one Saturday or Sunday. We'll drive up the canyon and pull over at all of the popular areas. We'll park, get out, and walk around and you can tell me what YOU see. Perhaps you could even hold a few streamside chats on environmental education. You game?

I like people of all stripes and I enjoy the differences in culture, and that's what we have here, a difference in culture. There is a certain segment of the population whose culture condones tagging rocks and trees and leaving diapers and trash strewn about the forest because that is how they live in their own neighborhood. Sorry, but 25-years of familiarity with San Gabriel Canyon has only served to enforce certain stereotypes, not dissuade them.

So, when do you want to go?
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ARM



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Location: Wrightwood

PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry, you missed my point, but you are right too. I agree, there is a huge mess caused by people who don't care about their impacts on the mountain, but education is the only way to change it, not by calling them names and making them feel like they are inferior for their looks.

I've been hiking the canyon and all over the mountain since the mid 70's, and have noticed the changes you speak of over those 35 or so years.

The trash problem is caused by all sorts of people who visit the mountains - a lot of people are just not that aware about environmental issues, and don't see or care about what they are doing to the forest.

The problem has been getting worse now that schools don't teach environmental education anymore. Ever been to a week of outdoor education camp in 6th grade? That's what got me into pursuing an environmental career. Schools just can't do those anymore and so the kids, and the mountains, suffer for it. Many of the inner city kids that live at the base of the ANF who are given opportunities to go on fieldtrips or have programs in school that deal with the environment do care. They will have families of their own, and will want to go camping, hiking, etc. up on the mountain too. If they feel that the place belongs to them, and they care about it, the mountain will be the better for it.

The comment I referred to was just not very helpful for this effort.
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lesper4



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

this is great for us cyclists but couldnt they just run the sweeper up and back once a year?  Wink
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Elwood
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It would appear to me that someone has deleted a message that reflects an understandable but absolutely wrong interpretation of my comment. An urban burrito is simply slang for one of the multitude of soiled diapers left trailside, roadside, creekside, etc. Other than the ethnic specificity of the foodstuff referenced, it is not a slur against any group. Ill be sure to refer to them in the future as urban kreplach or urban blintzes.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't forget the dosa. Everyone has a the right to be offended Very Happy
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Hikin_Jim
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't be deceived.   Hwy 39 is a communist plot.

HJ
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ARM



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Location: Wrightwood

PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Elwood wrote:
It would appear to me that someone has deleted a message that reflects an understandable but absolutely wrong interpretation of my comment. An urban burrito is simply slang for one of the multitude of soiled diapers left trailside, roadside, creekside, etc. Other than the ethnic specificity of the foodstuff referenced, it is not a slur against any group. Ill be sure to refer to them in the future as urban kreplach or urban blintzes.


Well thanks, Elwood, I did misunderstand your intent, along with another commenter it seems. No harm done. It's too bad that the issue I raised is such a hot button. It would be nice to someday find a solution to the problem of having a limited amount of solitude and bliss surrounded like an island by so many who want to go see and play in it.

It seems that we only have a few choices though for the San Gabriel, San Bernardino San Jacinto Mtns. We can either let them go, keep everyone out, or keep putting on limits to where and how many can go in... Unless, does anyone know how to make an island disapear and move through time?
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robnokshus



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Well thanks, Elwood,  I did misunderstand your intent, along with another commenter it seems.


Well, if you're referring to me, I did not misunderstand the comment. In fact the first thing I alluded to was that people are upset with dirty diapers and mountains of trash. YOU were the one that suggested that people were biased about the way people LOOK. I suggested that it wasn't their looks that folks object to, but their behavior. Big difference.
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EManBevHills



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anyone have any more details on the "issuing tickets to pedestrian thing"?
And what about cyclists?
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

EManBevHills wrote:
Anyone have any more details on the "issuing tickets to pedestrian thing"?
And what about cyclists?
 I think that was more about fire closure than Hwy 39 itself.  Anyone got anything further on that?

HJ
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AW
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hikin_Jim wrote:
EManBevHills wrote:
Anyone have any more details on the "issuing tickets to pedestrian thing"?
And what about cyclists?
I think that was more about fire closure than Hwy 39 itself. Anyone got anything further on that?

HJ


http://glendoramtnroad.blogspot.c...ort-from-board-of-highway-39.html

Its $200 according to "yeahian". That wasnt the only I read, but the only one I remember about cyclists. It is defintely about them not wanting the public on the road while they work....although they make talk about their legal liability in case something goes wrong for you. That and they dont need any vandals going up there.
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Hikin_Jim
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AW wrote:
Hikin_Jim wrote:
EManBevHills wrote:
Anyone have any more details on the "issuing tickets to pedestrian thing"?
And what about cyclists?
I think that was more about fire closure than Hwy 39 itself. Anyone got anything further on that?

HJ


http://glendoramtnroad.blogspot.c...ort-from-board-of-highway-39.html

Its $200 according to "yeahian". That wasnt the only I read, but the only one I remember about cyclists. It is defintely about them not wanting the public on the road while they work....although they make talk about their legal liability in case something goes wrong for you. That and they dont need any vandals going up there.


That was actually for "long boarders," but I get the idea.  Sounds like they're serious about it.  

Is there a sign to that effect?  I don't recall ever seeing one.

HJ
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Mike P
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Location: Glendora, CA

PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 8:46 am    Post subject: Caltrans on Hwy 39 Reply with quote

From today's Tribune:
Hwy 39

I hope Caltrans will abandon only the closed section.
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davantalus



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 11:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Road to nowhere, meet Bridge to nowhere?

I get that it's costly - but don't easily maintainable roads soak up the cost of the expensive ones?  Isn't Highway 2 a million times more expensive?

Would Highway 2 get the same treatment if there weren't more people ready to make a fuss for it? But then I guess The 2 goes through... hang on...

Where's PIA when you need him?
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simonov
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 8:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Today's "environmentalists" aren't your father's environmentalists.

Quote:
Longtime cabin owner and environmental activist Glen Owens was dumbfounded over what some are calling a Caltrans trial balloon.

"Why would a state agency try to shirk its responsibilities and then think another government agency would take those over?"


Quote:
Recently, Azusa businesses, cabin owners and some environmental groups lobbied for repairing the 4.4-mile section. They say having full circulation into Wrightwood and its ski areas, and into the high desert and La Canada Flintridge area, will bring more shoppers to the foothill cities of the San Gabriel Valley.


Since when do "environmentalists" lobby for more highways through the forests and mountains?
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Z
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

these people are full of shit.

play around with google maps. Of course the time estimates aren't perfect, but from downtown Asuza to downtown Wrightwood via 210 and 15 ~ 65 minutes.

From Asuza to Crystal Lake = 37 mins.
4.4 closed part of 39 = ???
From Islp Saddle to Wrightwood = 25 mins.

How is opening the end of the 39 really going to add business to Azusa again?
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AlanK
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Z wrote:
How is opening the end of the 39 really going to add business to Azusa again?

People will flock from Azusa to the Starbucks that will go in next to the restroom at Islip Saddle.  But, to get there they will want to fill up at the Starbucks on Foothill near Azusa Ave.  That will be a boost to the local economy.
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EManBevHills



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PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 7:34 pm    Post subject: HWY 39 from the LA Times 1/28/12 Reply with quote

http://www.latimes.com/news/local...es+-+California+%7C+Local+News%29
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obie



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PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Odd touch they added about Adam speaking "broken English."  My conversations with him led me to believe he's anything but an "immigrant" with language issues.  IIRC Adam told us once that he used to be in "banking",
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 10:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Broken English my ass. They owe Adam an apology for that comment.
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Hikin_Jim
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 10:57 pm    Post subject: Re: HWY 39 from the LA Times 1/28/12 Reply with quote

Fascinating.  First they're going to re-open the long-closed upper section, and now they want to abandon not only the upper section but the entire route.  

Maybe CalTrans is bipolar?

HJ
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 2:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds like the government to me!
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everyday
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Location: Yosemite!!! HA!

PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WTF? he speaks perfectly fine english.  Shocked
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moppychris



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well here in LA, if you don't have a latino or asian accent, you are the odd one out. Thus, Adam appears to have "broken english".
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AW
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CalTrans is the biggest slumlord in the state and is the one that needs to be abandoned

http://www.caltranstenants.com/slumlord.html
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AW
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 11:35 am    Post subject: Hwy 39: E Fork Rd to Crystal Lake closed for several weeks Reply with quote

http://caltransd7info.blogspot.co...el-canyon-road-sr-39-closure.html

"Caltrans will continue to restrict access to San Gabriel Canyon Road (SR-39) due to mud slides and road washouts caused by early January rains in the Cabin fire burn area in the Angeles National Forest.  The closure is just north of East Fork Road, 13 miles north of the Foothill Freeway (SR-210).  The closure is expected to be in place for several weeks.

Caltrans damage assessment coordinators and geotechnical technical team are in the process of:

   Developing repair solutions and hiring a contractor to rebuild three damaged sections of highway.
   Clearing debris basins alongside the highway for future storms.
   Rebuilding and stabilizing the slopes above and below the highway.
   Securing permits from Angeles National Forest, California Fish and Wildlife, California Regional Water Quality Control Board, and US Waterways to begin repairs. "
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Sean
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2016 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is a good example of what I was saying in the other thread about the lack of private development in the forest resulting in a lack of government resources devoted to protecting it. If there were a small village in the Crystal Lake basin, then these government agencies would be hearing an earful on a daily basis from hundreds of irate residents clamoring for critical, public services like simply maintaining the debris basins and storm channels. Instead we have one small business owner, weeks after the fact, pleading with hiker-tourists for help in dealing with several different government entities who clearly see little urgency in the matter.
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AW
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2016 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This one is pretty simple IMO....and not a good example. A storm on a recently burned sizable area ruined a piece of Highway 39. Theres no way anyone is going to fix anything until after the rainy season, nor should they. And with Caltrans operating under the assumption of El Nino saturated storms coming, that makes it 101% they wont move an inch on it, nor would they if there were a small village. The section from Crystal Lake to Highway 2 would be a better example, but there are plenty of voices supporting the fixing of that section already.

The operator should have known this would happen...and will happen again.
The FS plans to renovate the old campgrounds and spend millions....so it is in fact the public that recognizes the importance of Crystal Lake for recreation and wants the road opened. Its just that the history of Caltrans  is ignoring millions of people and not investing in mountain highways.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2016 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AW wrote:
And with Caltrans operating under the assumption of El Nino saturated storms coming, that makes it 101% they wont move an inch on it, nor would they if there were a small village.


Yes, they would. A village buried in snow and isolated from the rest of civilization would be considered a public emergency. They would either fix the road within days, evacuate the village, or indefinitely supply necessities by chopper. I'm guessing they'll fix the road as quickly as possible.
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AW
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2016 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sean wrote:

Yes, they would. A village buried in snow and isolated from the rest of civilization would be considered a public emergency. They would either fix the road within days, evacuate the village, or indefinitely supply necessities by chopper. I'm guessing they'll fix the road as quickly as possible.


Crystal Lake was supplied by auto from the lower end. In the areas where the highway was gone, they put the supplies on wagons...then switching back to auto for the next section,etc. By that year of course the Solider Creek development had been long evacuated from the Curve fire.

Yeah, they fixed the lower section ASAP...as in 2 years lol. Within days? Impossible....and to top it off it was raining everyday for months and got worse and more highway defects. These clowns are planning for 1997-1998...Feb to be 13 inches of LA downtown rain. And if that happens, this defect will be just one of many.
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dima



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Has anyone heard anything about when the road to Crystal Lake will reopen? Don't want to get into a political discussion here, just want to know about the road :)
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Early May?

http://caltransd7info.blogspot.co...el-canyon-road-sr-39-on-mend.html
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2016 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Schedule to open Friday 4/29 at 3:30 pm
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2016 5:19 pm    Post subject: Hwy 39 at night: robbery 4/15/16 Reply with quote

http://www.sgvtribune.com/general...couple-in-angeles-national-forest

"...The robbery happened at mile marker 23 on Highway 39 at about 3:30 a.m.

Berg said a 19-year-old West Covina man and a 20-year-old West Covina woman were in a parked car when a man and a woman in their 20s approached them.

The man, who carried a shotgun, demanded the victims property and took a wallet, a phone and car keys, according to Berg...."

Hwy39 also saw a perplexing overnight stay by a hiker
http://www.sgvtribune.com/general...escued-in-angeles-national-forest
"...Lt. Andy Berg of the sheriffs San Dimas station said the woman, her 25-year-old brother and her 12-year-old brother went hiking Sunday in an area past mile marker 28 on Highway 39. He said they were hiking off trail and went to a lookout. While hiking back, Berg said the woman slipped on a rock and broke her arm. The siblings decided to spend the night in the forest, he said. Berg didnt know if the three had any camping equipment.On Monday, he said the older brother went back to the car and drove to an Azusa police station where he sought help...."
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2016 6:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the update.
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PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2016 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This article was closed out
http://www.sgvtribune.com/general...obberies-in-san-gabriel-mountains
Quote:
By Stephanie K. Baer, The San Gabriel Valley Tribune

Posted: 05/02/16, 2:37 PM PDT | Updated: 2 hrs ago
0 Comments

Authorities have arrested two suspects and recovered property in connection with three armed robberies in the San Gabriel Mountains last month.

Between April 15 and April 30, deputies received reports of three separate armed robberies near Highway 39 in the San Gabriel Mountains, according to a statement from the Los Angeles County Sheriffs Department San Dimas station.

In each incident, a male and female armed with a shotgun approached victims parked in roadside turnouts and stole purses, cell phones, wallets and other personal property.

The suspect vehicle described in each robbery was a white cube-style small SUV.

After receiving the report of the third robbery at about 3 a.m. on Saturday, deputies located the suspect vehicle on Highway 39 near mile marker 19. The car, a white 2010 Scion XB, had been involved in a single-vehicle crash with a guard rail, authorities said.

Deputies detained the male and female occupants of the vehicle.

Victims of the third robbery identified both suspects. Juan Manuel Plazola, 20, of La Puente, and Deanna Marie Campillo, 23, of El Monte, were in possession of a shotgun, a replica pistol and stolen property at the time of their arrest. Detectives later obtained a warrant to search for evidence in the suspects vehicle and located property reported stolen in the previous robberies.

Plazola was booked on suspicion of armed robbery at the San Dimas station and held in lieu of a $100,000 bail. Campillo was booked on suspicion of armed robbery at the Century Regional Detention Facility and held in lieu of a $100,000 bail.

The two were scheduled to appear in court on Tuesday.


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PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2016 10:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bonnie & Clyde?
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PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2016 8:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Surprise surprise. This guy has two prior felonies and was last sentenced to two years in January 2015, but apparently he got an early release and was released in October. Hopefully this counts as his third strike. The girl also has a prior felony arrest but apparently the charges were dropped. Go justice system!
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 8:14 am    Post subject: Caltrans considering a new plan to reopen Highway 39 Reply with quote

Caltrans considering a new plan to reopen Highway 39 all the way to Wrightwood

Quote:
Congestion in the North, West and East forks of the San Gabriel River popular recreation spots during summer and fall would be relieved by completing the loop to Highway 2, moving people and traffic through Wrightwood, a quaint mountain town, and connecting to the high-desert communities.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

About dam time.. Would be nice to not have to drive all the way around to access BP and the environs.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ridiculous. There is no benefit to access to Wrightwood, as it is already faster to take 210 - 15 - 138 to get there than it would be up the slower, curvy, steep mountainous 39 - 2 route.

The only benefit would be a 10-20 minute drop in time for people in Azusa / Glendora to get up to the upper ACH trailheads (i.e. Waterman, Kratka, Islip, etc...). Other cities west it would be faster to access ACH from La Canada anyways.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Z wrote:
Ridiculous. There is no benefit to access to Wrightwood, as it is already faster to take 210 - 15 - 138 to get there than it would be up the slower, curvy, steep mountainous 39 - 2 route.


What about during rush hours? A lot of people take the AFH to Palmdale to avoid the 5 freeway. Maybe some would take 39 to bypass Cajon Pass.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Z wrote:
Other cities west it would be faster to access ACH from La Canada anyways.


Relying on one narrow mountain highway, when you have another one built is plain loco. Another one whose missing segment that is technically illegal to be on I should mention.

Id say a deal is in order, where Caltrans agrees to spend $X each year on the highway 39, and any unused funds get saved. If it does rain this year, you can forget about the last segment, and the possibility of a long closure of the segments affected by the recent fires....but if we dont get any damage by April, they should start up Highway 39.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You've got to be kidding.  Hwy 39 is technically infeasible unless you're going to be willing to spend a lot of money -- as in rebuilding the highway nearly every year.

The West face of Mount Islip is one big land slide.  Well, OK, not quite, but pretty close.  It's constant rock fall along there.  

If they really need a highway in there, they need to go over Windy Gap and abandon Islip Saddle as a route.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 9:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just because something is partially built, doesn't mean you have to keep it up. It doesn't make financial sense. The phrase "cut your losses" applies here.

These mountain roads aren't intended to be congestion-reducing throughputs, they are to provide access to nature. Constant costly upkeep of upper 39 in order to save some people 10 minutes off their drive to nature is not something taxpayers should paying for. If you wanted to make it a toll road, maybe. But I doubt that would work as the "demand" for it is fake.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Z wrote:
Just because something is partially built, doesn't mean you have to keep it up. It doesn't make financial sense. The phrase "cut your losses" applies here.

These mountain roads aren't intended to be congestion-reducing throughputs, they are to provide access to nature. Constant costly upkeep of upper 39 in order to save some people 10 minutes off their drive to nature is not something taxpayers should paying for. If you wanted to make it a toll road, maybe. But I doubt that would work as the "demand" for it is fake.


We'll see. They thought they were going to get away with closing Hwy39 at West Fork and then they thought they were going to get away with closing Hwy39 at the Valley of the Moon. A whole generation of wasted time, but just in time for the eastern half of the forest to be saved from the Station Fire.

Cant blame them I guess...they got away with not fixing GMR for 30 years with the same lies. And then a few months later its lasted for 10+ years with no incidents thus far. Granted it might be confusing which was the unnecessary one..GMR or Hwy39? Hwy 2 or Hwy 39? If we are going by cost, Hwy2 should have been abandoned a log time ago. In fact, the #2 from Little Jimmy eastward with that crackerjack coating they spent millions on looks like someone travelled it pogo-ing every which way with a jackhammer(OK it was likely the rock runs). Is the centerline still visible?
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 8:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It may be a straw man ploy to get funding:

"We need a lot of funding to fix this route, but hey, we can save $.02 by cutting thru a protected area."
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Read the article carefully. It does not say that any course of action is definite.

Quote:
We are preparing the engineering design and environmental studies in support of this effort, said Lauren Wonder, a Caltrans spokeswoman, in an email.


They aren't actually doing a design or studies. They are just "preparing" to do them.  It sounds like a smoke screen. The various city governments in the area are clamoring for the road to re-open. So, Caltrans makes like it is doing something just to shut them up.

If anything half way concrete appears, expect an avalanche of environmental law suits over the impact to Nelson's Bighorns.

I will be dead of old age first.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My brother is a civil engineer for caltrans. I'll have to ask him about it.
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