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CA-39 (San Gabriel Canyon Road)
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Rick Kent
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 11:09 am    Post subject: CA-39 (San Gabriel Canyon Road)  Reply with quote

Hwy 39 - Open to Crystal Lake Area?

Does anyone know if Hwy 39 is open up to or even near the Crystal Lake Area?  I know it was closed for quite a while down lower.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Copied from Taco's mountain page for peak 5495,

"Currently (as of 20070701), Route 39 is closed off at "Valley of the Moon", at mile marker 32.12"

We were up there on Sept 14th and this was still true.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmmmm. I'm not familiar with that spot. Is it above or below Coldbrook?
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Valley of the Moon is just before you get to Coldbrook. We were involved in a service project at Coldbrook earlier this year and a ranger that was there said they were concerned about the bridges (due to the fires up that way) and that the highway wouldn't be opened to the public until after they had been certified by Caltrans as being safe. She seemed to know what she was talking about. If that's the case, then we could be in for a long wait...
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, thanks!
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Location: Stuntin in the trap son

PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

6 mile walk or bike (walk for me) past mile marker 32.12 at VOTM before Coldbrook, up to Crystal Lake. Fun ride down. I wish it was opened to the first gate just past CL.

I guess the bridges she meant were the ones that hug the mountainside.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Current information can be found at

http://www.crystallake.name/
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very cool*, but what the heck is this new ".name" internet domain? First I've heard of it.

*not that the road is still closed but that good info is available.
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Location: Stuntin in the trap son

PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 12:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's an evil communist conspiracy.

The guy who runs the CrystalLake.name site is a good dude.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rte. 39 is passable on bicycle and on foot.  I know prople who have ridden it.  In 2005, my son and I did Mt. Islip from Islip Saddle during the winter.  He talked me into bushwacking down to Rte. 39.  We then walked about 2 miles on the road back to the saddle.  I mention that episode because we saw a guy in a car on the road.  He had gotten through the southern closure and thought he was going to make it onto Rte. 2.  We told him that there was a locked gate.  A while later, he came back down and confirmed that he had, indeed, encountered a gate.  We never got the straight scoop on how he got onto the road, but it was obvisouly passable.  (This is not to claim that it should be open to traffic.)
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've walked R39 many times, just wish it was open to vehicle traffic, so I could reach the north side of the mountains without going insanely far out of my way. I can't afford that much gas. I live on R39 in the Azusa area. Willaimson Rock would be a short jaunt north!!! (Soon as they open that up again... damn frogs... argh)
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 8:11 pm    Post subject: Route 39 Gate... WTF Mate? Reply with quote

Went up last night for a drive, and expected to turn around near the gate at Valley of the moon (Upper Bear Creek/Smith Mountain Trailhead).

Whadayaknow, the gate is now closed at the old location just a couple klicks or so north of the bridge over West Fork. WTF? Is this because of the fire over Sierra Madre?
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PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2008 6:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great question, Taco.  Every time we have hiked Smith Mountain over the last couple of years we have had to walk the road from the gate you mention up to the parking lot at the Smith Mountain trailhead.  This is perfectly good road and there is another gate right at the tarilhead that they can lock up there if the road beyond that point has problems.  Why won't they let us drive on that portion of the road?  Does anyone know?

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PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2008 9:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

upper bear creek trail is closed from Hwy39....FYI
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PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2008 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AW wrote:
upper bear creek trail is closed from Hwy39....FYI

?  Really?  Nothing wrong with it.  Just routine USFS paranoia or ?
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PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2008 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.fs.fed.us/r5/angeles/o...Bear-Creek-Trail-Forest-Order.pdf

Another key word in there is closed until Feb 29 2009
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PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2008 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It says there's a slide; at least there's a slide marked on the map.  Probably why they closed the road lower down.  Keep people out.  Sometimes the USFS gets a little overzealous.  Says they'll fine you if you're caught.  

The Crystal Lake area is also closed to hikers/backpackers.  Kind of lame.  I'm all for rehabing an overused area, but backpackers have a pretty small footprint and would be few in number -- you have to come in from Islip Saddle or walk the road from below.  Closing it to people who are willing to walk in on foot is overkill.  Am I missing something here?
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PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2008 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your insight is as good as mine..just dont know. Recently, I have felt that there are a lot of consequences(call them unintended if you want) from laws and orders higher up. In this case, I think you have 2 sides, one of limited access, and one of un-limited access. There are no "trails" in the limited access side(the SG wilderness), you cant close the trail where there is no "trail". But as soon as you get into the designed area of high use, the only way to meet the responsibilities maybe was to close the road and avoid posting an enforcement ranger 24/7.

Any knucklehead can sue the forest service nowadays. I remember a judge revoking Angeles FS immunity when some dude dived into a shallow pool at Stoneyvalle Picnic area..said the forest service had a responsibility to stop people from a known danger.

Overzealous...well closing Little Santa Anita canyon, a known canyoneering canyon...Sierra Madre seems very harsh to me going back to when they decided last year to close all hiking on red flag days.
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PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2008 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is all of Little SA Canyon off limits?  That is harsh.  Probably some grafitti or trash problems.  I doubt very much that canyoneers are causing any trouble.  The thing I hate is that there's no intelligence to most of these closure decisions.  It's an all or nothing closure.  There ought to be a way to get an exception for legitimate, non-destructive purposes (e.g. canyoneering).  Sigh  [Rant off]
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PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2008 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AW wrote:
Overzealous...well closing Little Santa Anita canyon, a known canyoneering canyon...Sierra Madre seems very harsh to me...

I know they closed Little Santa Anita Canyon his week for a while because it was in the middle of the fire.  Has it been closed otherwise?  The Mount Wilson Trail was certainly open before the fire.

AW wrote:
...going back to when they decided last year to close all hiking on red flag days.

I assume that you are referring to the closure of the entire ANF.  Actually, all of the National Forests and several of the State Parks in Southern California have had extended closures in recent years (beginning in 2003, if not before).  It was not just on red flag days, it was for several weeks at a time.  which, of course, is exactly what quite a few people call "overzealous."  I am ambivalent about such closures.  I think that the USFS is in a bit of a bind when huge tracts of land are ablaze.  They just don't have the resources to tackle more fires.  People argue about whether or not closures have anything to do with preventing fires, but one can certainly understand the lack of resources to supervise evacuations, etc.  Anyway, it has been controversial in the past and will be when the forests are closed again.
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PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2008 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

>I know they closed Little Santa Anita Canyon his week for a while >because it was in the middle of the fire.  Has it been closed otherwise?  >The Mount Wilson Trail was certainly open before the fire.

I agree with closing it on known fires. I am not angry if they close it to a perceived fire danger, its just I cant disagree either if its called overzealous just because they close it when its windy outside. Main reason being theres a disconnect by screaming fire danger when houses are built right up against it.....theres always fire danger....and as people know, the communication is extremely pitiful sometimes.

The portion of canyon(not the trail to Firstwater) aka river below First water is a lot more dangerous than before with unknown anchor conditions for rappells and possibly careful terrain. While thats certainly easy to agree with, canyoneers dont like to be babysat as it enforces bad decision making....as it should be proceed at your own risk...not it is open because it is now safe to proceed..which equals safe to proceed assuming you can deal with whatever obstacle you encounter..which is the same thing as before...anyways...
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PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2008 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heres a list of road closures....

The Angeles Crest Highway (SR2) is closed between Islip Saddle and Vincent Gap (indefinitely because of several washouts). (State)
Glendora Mountain Road - Closed from Big Dalton Rd. to East Fork, due to fire danger. (County)
Chantry Road is closed due to fire danger (City of Sierra Madre)
Ridge Route from Lake Hughes Road to Templin Highway - All modes of transportation (Forest Service)
Highway 39 - Closed from just above the west fork of San Gabriel Canyon (State)

So it looks like Hwy39 has nothing to do with the Forest service.
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PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2008 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Crystal Lake area is also closed to hikers/backpackers.  

HUH? How's a guy possa know it's closed? Are there signs all over the place up there? What if you go there from the north?[/quote]
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PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2008 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FIGHT ON wrote:
The Crystal Lake area is also closed to hikers/backpackers.  

HUH? How's a guy possa know it's closed? Are there signs all over the place up there? What if you go there from the north?

Yep.  There was a big sign at Windy Gap last time I was there.  Next time I went by, someone had pulled it out of the ground and thrown it down.   I feel the same way!!  Laughing
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PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2008 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, damn, I guess I keep on missing that sign. Oops. Damn. Maybe I should look if I decide to give a damn...  Laughing

So... I drove on Glendora Ridge Road the other day, completely open... GMR is closed too? I typically only do the scetion from Heaton Flat to GRR. Bollocks.
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PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2008 7:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hikin_Jim wrote:
FIGHT ON wrote:
The Crystal Lake area is also closed to hikers/backpackers.  

HUH? How's a guy possa know it's closed? Are there signs all over the place up there? What if you go there from the north?

Yep.  There was a big sign at Windy Gap last time I was there.  Next time I went by, someone had pulled it out of the ground and thrown it down.   I feel the same way!!  Laughing


So there is a sign? What does the sign say? Does it actually say "All hikers/ backpackers KEEP OUT"? You can't just go there to check the area out w/o camping? What the heck is that? Are you sure? I just don't get it. I can maybe understand that if the area was over used and they want to let it be for a while but to stop passersby doesn't make sense.
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PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2008 11:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is a sign.  I'm looking at a photo of it now.  I can't read it all, but it says in English and in Spanish:
CRYSTAL LAKE RECREATION AREA CLOSED
Per Forest order (CFR some number, CFR another number)
Order (some number)
For further information call US Forest Service 626-325-1291

Don't quote me on that phone number.  I'm looking at a photo one of the other guys on the hike took; it's a little hard to make out.  If you're really interested, I'm sure you could call the supervisor's office in Arcadia.

The first time I went by there, the sign was up.  Another time, somebody had pulled it out and knocked it over.

I agree it makes no sense, but then does it really surprise you that bureaucrats don't make sense?  Your tax dollars at work.  Smile

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PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2008 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ew. Snippy lady at the San Gabriel River Ranger District
110 N. Wabash Avenue
Glendora, CA 91741
L'Tanga Watson, District Ranger
(626) 335-1251
CRS 1 800 735 2929
FAX (626) 914-3790
M-F 8:00 am - 4:30 pm
Got the feeling I was asking too many questions.  Crying or Very sad  Embarassed  Confused  Shocked  Sad . She said you can't go into the campgrounds. Not even to look. Stay away. won't be open until 2011. so there. Rolling Eyes
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PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2008 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Typical.  I should probably place a warning here that "this post will be an emotional venting of frustrations" but, what is going on with the USFS?????

I'm sure that there are some important things that they are doing behind the scenes that I am not aware of but, other than clearing some fallen trees off of trails each year, I just don't see what they are doing to enhance our experience in the forest service lands.  Camp sites are falling into an increasing state of ignored disrepair.  The same thing can be said for the trails. Rather than maintainng the trails, they wait until they deteriorate to an unsafe condition and then they close them.  Nice! What good does that do us?  Have you ever even met a forest service employee in the San Gabriels either away from the ranger stations or off of the roads??  Rarely.  The sense that I get is that they wait for any natural event that can be used as an excuse to close an area to public use and then leave it like that for years so that they do not need to maintain it.  (I warned you that this would be a rant)

Look at what they just did with the trail to Smith Mountain.  They get a slide so they close it for a year???  Wow. There are some on this board who have pointed to a lack of intelligence on their part as they make these decisions.  I agree.  If this is a budget issue, ask the public for some help.  I for one would gladly volunteer time to help with repairs when they are needed and my services are FREE.  I'm sure that there are many others who feel as I do.  Rather than constantly closing areas "because they have the authority to do so" why not manage outreach programs that fix the problems?  

Our tax dollars at work.  Many fo their decisions make me believe that they have lost sight of their purpose and why they are there. Restricting public acess to public grounds is not their purpose.

RV
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Location: Stuntin in the trap son

PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2008 10:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Y'all own BDU's/Camouflage clothing?  Cool

I'm just sayin'... Laughing
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 11:42 pm    Post subject: Public Notice for State Route 39 Reply with quote

For the last few days the San Gabriel Valley Tribune has been publishing a Caltrans Public Notice of the availability of the Draft Environmental Document and Announcement of Public Hearing for the SR-39 Reopening Project from 5 miles N of Crystal Lake Campground to the Angeles Crest hwy. I couldn't find the link anywhere to this notice so I will type in the pertinent info:

What's available?

The draft Environmental Assessment/Environmental Report (EA/EIR) is available in downtown LA or at the Azusa City Library located at 729 N Dalton Ave, Azusa.

Where Do You Come In?

Do you have any comments regarding the EA/EIR? Do you disagree with the findings of the studies? Would you care to make any other comments about the project? Please submit any written comments no later than March 11, 2009 to:
Mr. Ronald Kosinski, Deputy District Director
California Department of Transportation
Division of Environmental Planning
100 South Main Street MS 16A
Los Angeles, CA 90012

Caltrans will begin accepting comments on January 26, 2009.

What and When?

A hearing will be held to allow any interested individuals an opportunity to discuss certain design features of the project with Caltrans staff before the final design and alternative is selected. The public hearing will be held on Tuesday, February 24, 2009 from 6:00 pm - 8;30 pm at City of Azusa Senior Center, 740 North Dalton Ave., Azusa, 91702

Additional info can be had from Eduardo Aguliar at 213-897-8492.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

With the current state budget crisis, why is the state even thinking about wasting money on this stretch of road?
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike P wrote:
With the current state budget crisis, why is the state even thinking about wasting money on this stretch of road?


BACON!!!
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 11:32 am    Post subject: Re: Public Notice for State Route 39 Reply with quote

Mike P wrote:
For the last few days the San Gabriel Valley Tribune has been publishing a Caltrans Public Notice of the availability of the Draft Environmental Document and Announcement of Public Hearing for the SR-39 Reopening Project from 5 miles N of Crystal Lake Campground to the Angeles Crest hwy. I couldn't find the link anywhere ...
 CALIFORNIA STATE ROUTE-39
(SAN GABRIEL CANYON ROAD)
REHABILITATION / REOPENING PROJECT

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Location: Stuntin in the trap son

PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bacon is yes.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe they plan on using those same crews that are working on the lower portion of the highway...at that rate this new project will not be completed in my lifetime.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Supposedly they won't start the major roadbed repairs until some time in 2010.  Their plan for this year is to just build retaining walls.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 3:34 pm    Post subject: Retaining Walls Reply with quote

Is that to catch all the Bureaucratic B.S. that rolls downhill - those retaining walls are already overflowing with "Arnie" and companies polices.

Hope it doesn't spill to far off the top, I had enough of their "Cr&^"

Very Happy
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As an engineer who works on many Public Works projects, the State has recently placed a "HOLD" on all state improvement grants.  The EIR/CEQA documents were most likely in place or started prior to this "HOLD" and at this stage, the State will finalize the document, after receiving comments, and place this project on hold.  I don't think any actual improvements will start for quite some time.

I would like to think different, but I'm not very hopeful.

This is jsut an opinion, and hopefully I am wrong.

~EnFuego
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the link, HJ!
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i say keep it closed
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I say open it up and let there be a jihad against taggers and bad folks in the mountains.
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Zach
Sweetstacks
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Joined: 04 Jan 2009
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Location: Ridgecicle

PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TacoDelRio wrote:
I say open it up and let there be a jihad against taggers and bad folks in the mountains.


taco- somewhere out there is a massive computer analyzing, sifting and red-flagging your little Arabic quips...  just thought you'd like to know your blog is probably in some NSA database with some nerd saying to himself, "wtf?!"
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AlanK
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Joined: 27 Sep 2007
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Location: Glendale, CA

PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 10:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zach wrote:
TacoDelRio wrote:
I say open it up and let there be a jihad against taggers and bad folks in the mountains.


taco- somewhere out there is a massive computer analyzing, sifting and red-flagging your little Arabic quips...  just thought you'd like to know your blog is probably in some NSA database with some nerd saying to himself, "wtf?!"

"Taggers" is Arabic?  Confused

Frankly, I don't think the National Softball Association cares.
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AlanK
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Location: Glendale, CA

PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 11:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DamOTclese wrote:
TacoDelRio wrote:
I say open it up and let there be a jihad against taggers and bad folks in the mountains.

I second that motion, and add that a fair trial will immediately follow all such executions.

It's liberal Western notions like that that make us more civilized than the Taliban.  Smile
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Zach
Sweetstacks
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Location: Ridgecicle

PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 11:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HA! Shocked
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Taco
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Location: Stuntin in the trap son

PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cool  Laughing
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<3 <3 <3 Snow


Joined: 28 Jul 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 3:18 pm    Post subject: Is hwy 39 open to East Fork rd? Reply with quote

anyone know if hwy 39 is open? caltrans says 'controlled 1 way traffic' or something.
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AW
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Location: North Hollywood, CA

PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 5:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Is hwy 39 open to East Fork rd? Reply with quote

Zé wrote:
anyone know if hwy 39 is open? caltrans says 'controlled 1 way traffic' or something.


Its open. They might close the one lane on the short stretch of burn area if they are working, but the wait isnt long for the other cars to come down or up. I was held up for less than 5 mintues....if you go that way, have your camera ready and snap a picture of Islip canyon Cool it will be the colorful one near the end of the burn area.
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Layne Cantrell



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Location: Glendale, CA

PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 12:02 am    Post subject: Re: Is hwy 39 open to East Fork rd? Reply with quote

AW wrote:
Zé wrote:
anyone know if hwy 39 is open? caltrans says 'controlled 1 way traffic' or something.


Its open. They might close the one lane on the short stretch of burn area if they are working, but the wait isnt long for the other cars to come down or up. I was held up for less than 5 mintues....if you go that way, have your camera ready and snap a picture of Islip canyon Cool it will be the colorful one near the end of the burn area.


Anyone know if the Station Fire affected plans to open 39 to 2? Don't imagine it would, but not being able to get up there makes it seem like the whole damn place is gone entirely.

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