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mattmaxon

Station "The Beast" Fire 09/08/2009

I couldn't continue to watch this slow motion train wreck over the weekend

But I can't hide forever....

Don't know what these morons have in mind, you can't predict what Psychopathic people are going to do...

Hopefully at some point they'll put this out or they'll run out of forest.

http://pctmap.homeip.net/data2/Fi.../Map%2016%200734%20PDT%200908.kml

Zé

there goes Waterman and Twin Peaks?

seriously bummed. that's my favorite area  Sad
Layne Cantrell

Re: Station "The Beast" Fire 09/08/2009

mattmaxon wrote:
I couldn't continue to watch this slow motion train wreck over the weekend

But I can't hide forever....

Don't know what these morons have in mind, you can't predict what Psychopathic people are going to do...

Hopefully at some point they'll put this out or they'll run out of forest.
http://pctmap.homeip.net/data2/Fi.../Map%2016%200734%20PDT%200908.kml




Oh, you're shitting me! Its reached the other side of waterman? Now it really looks like Buckhorn is doomed.
cougarmagic

Someone at Mt Waterman is making these recorded updates - it does sound like they're working extremely hard to keep it south of the Crest. And working really hard in general.  

818-790-2002
harper

cougarmagic wrote:
Someone at Mt Waterman is making these recorded updates - it does sound like they're working extremely hard to keep it south of the Crest. And working really hard in general.  

818-790-2002


i have no doubt that the fire fighters *are* working really hard (and i am grateful to them, don't doubt it.)
but i am with mm and wonder who is telling them *where* and *how* to work.
i mean, if there were some "important" structure there and not "just" trees i am confident it would not be burning now.
so.
yes.
they *will* run out of forest.
soon.

harper
Layne Cantrell

harper wrote:
cougarmagic wrote:
Someone at Mt Waterman is making these recorded updates - it does sound like they're working extremely hard to keep it south of the Crest. And working really hard in general.  

818-790-2002


i have no doubt that the fire fighters *are* working really hard (and i am grateful to them, don't doubt it.)
but i am with mm and wonder who is telling them *where* and *how* to work.
i mean, if there were some "important" structure there and not "just" trees i am confident it would not be burning now.


Oh that's heartbreaking. I know nothing about firefighting and so I was under the impression that this fire was simply too big to "put out" on our terms. Do you really believe that and order could have been given to put this thing out?
mattmaxon

I don't doubt the firefighter on the line is doing their level best to do the task assigned

Do not doubt for a Picosecond I don't value their efforts

My bile is reserved for the low grade morons / Psychopathic scum running the show

The decision that has been made to do a "Backfire" on Mt Wilson is beyond stupid and could end in further destruction.

This is no "backfire" nor is it a "tactical burn" This is a "prescribed burn" which should NOT be done at this very dangerous time  

The conditions ARE extreme, they want to do a "prescribed burn" do it when the weather conditions are very favorable (not the political and financial ones)

And YES this COULD be put out today IF the decision to put it out was made

harper wrote:
cougarmagic wrote:
Someone at Mt Waterman is making these recorded updates - it does sound like they're working extremely hard to keep it south of the Crest. And working really hard in general.  

818-790-2002


i have no doubt that the fire fighters *are* working really hard (and i am grateful to them, don't doubt it.)
but i am with mm and wonder who is telling them *where* and *how* to work.
i mean, if there were some "important" structure there and not "just" trees i am confident it would not be burning now.
so.
yes.
they *will* run out of forest.
soon.

harper
Layne Cantrell

mattmaxon wrote:
I don't doubt the firefighter on the line is doing their level best to do the task assigned

Do not doubt for a Picosecond I don't value their efforts

My bile is reserved for the low grade morons / Psychopathic scum running the show

The decision that has been made to do a "Backfire" on Mt Wilson is beyond stupid and could end in further destruction.


I don't understand either. Isn't Mt. Wilson pretty much in the clear at this point? I was under the impression that the active areas had moved NE, pretty much exactly where I was hoping it wouldn't.
Layne Cantrell

mattmaxon wrote:

And YES this COULD be put out today IF the decision to put it out was made


Oh god. I'll be crying over my beer for years over this one.
mattmaxon

Your impression is correct... Mt Wilson and all areas to the west are no longer Actively Burning

So WHY do a Prescribed Burn during this disaster?

I'll tell you my opinion

They can't get the funding to do Prescribed Burns and so when a fire is going the decision makers let it burn and do "back fire" operations under the guise of firefighting

This is exactly why this fire is as bad as it is right now.

The decision was made to let this burn on Thursday and Friday (8/27 & 8/2Cool and it got away from them

Much of the South face of Mt Lukens could have been "saved" if the fire department didn't have any matches

Yerba Buena Ridge was allowed to burn up to the structures, no attempt was made to stop it.

I didn't see the operations in Arroyo Seco but I suspect it was the same.

My faith in the various Firefighting agencies is dust... They are endangering the public, and the rank and file firefighters


Layne Cantrell wrote:
I don't understand either. Isn't Mt. Wilson pretty much in the clear at this point? I was under the impression that the active areas had moved NE, pretty much exactly where I was hoping it wouldn't.
mattmaxon

Layne Cantrell wrote:
Oh god. I'll be crying over my beer for years over this one.


Well when you're done crying get angry! Get very ANGRY!

This must NEVER happen again
Layne Cantrell

mattmaxon wrote:
Layne Cantrell wrote:
Oh god. I'll be crying over my beer for years over this one.


Well when you're done crying get angry! Get very ANGRY!

This must NEVER happen again


I'm plenty angry, but what can be done? Where do we channel our anger? What can we do to make changes?

I fear its too late.

This can't happen again, sadly, because there doesn't seem to be much forest left.
harper

Layne Cantrell wrote:
mattmaxon wrote:
Layne Cantrell wrote:
Oh god. I'll be crying over my beer for years over this one.


Well when you're done crying get angry! Get very ANGRY!

This must NEVER happen again


I'm plenty angry, but what can be done? Where do we channel our anger? What can we do to make changes?

I fear its too late.

This can't happen again, sadly, because there doesn't seem to be much forest left.


yes, what CAN be done?
where *do* we aim our anger?
(would be nice if *something* constructive could be done with it.
as it is it is just making me sick...)

hh
Layne Cantrell

harper wrote:
Layne Cantrell wrote:
mattmaxon wrote:
Layne Cantrell wrote:
Oh god. I'll be crying over my beer for years over this one.


Well when you're done crying get angry! Get very ANGRY!

This must NEVER happen again


I'm plenty angry, but what can be done? Where do we channel our anger? What can we do to make changes?

I fear its too late.

This can't happen again, sadly, because there doesn't seem to be much forest left.


yes, what CAN be done?
where *do* we aim our anger?
(would be nice if *something* constructive could be done with it.
as it is it is just making me sick...)

hh


Ditto here. Can't concentrate on a damn thing since the fire started. I've been worrying sick over something I can't control and is apparently about to happen now (according to Matt's last map). Not very constructive.
mattmaxon

Write letters, attend meetings, submit comments

Demand accountability

Demand fires be extinguished, leave "Prescribed Burns" for periods when it is safe to do.

Demand funding for Prescribed Burns

Understand fires are a part of the ecosystem and they will have to be

Many Many millions have been expended fighting this, a bottomless pit of money is available for fires, almost nothing for prescribed burns

Without prescribed burns this disaster will be repeated, we need to take back control of our forest from these people and see that is managed properly

This land was set aside by the efforts of far sighted individuals who worked tirelessly for the benefit of future generations.

It is our responsibility to future generations to continue the work of these people

Layne Cantrell wrote:
mattmaxon wrote:
Layne Cantrell wrote:
Oh god. I'll be crying over my beer for years over this one.


Well when you're done crying get angry! Get very ANGRY!

This must NEVER happen again


I'm plenty angry, but what can be done? Where do we channel our anger? What can we do to make changes?

I fear its too late.

This can't happen again, sadly, because there doesn't seem to be much forest left.
Layne Cantrell

mattmaxon wrote:

It is our responsibility to future generations to continue the work of these people


I'm going to have to wallow in a LOT more self-pity before I can think about future generations.

In all seriousness I hear you. You know a lot more about this than I do, if you keep venting I'll keep learning and hopefully it'll point me in the right direction.
mattmaxon

Elwood

Having loved, and hiked hundreds of miles in the San Gabriels this year alone, the sadness over this fire and its effect on forest and wildlife is almost overpowering. I echo the sentiment that we can't allow misfortunes that we hold no sway over to dominate our thinking. I for one, will be turning my energies towards helping rebuild the Angeles in any way that I can.
harper

mattmaxon wrote:


oh god.
i feel literally nauseated looking at this map.

so -- *where* do we make these demands?
*who* do we talk to?
and in which way?
any ideas?

also -- where do we go to help clean up this mess (literally, i mean, in the actual mountains.)

harper
mattmaxon

harper wrote:
oh god.
i feel literally nauseated looking at this map.


You are human

harper wrote:
so -- *where* do we make these demands?

Ah good question....

Our elected representatives would be my suggestion

Local, County, State, Federal

harper wrote:
*who* do we talk to?


Anyone who'll listen

Talking to the forest service will be a waste of time

harper wrote:
and in which way?


We'll I wouldn't go down there screaming, as much as I'd like to they'll just write you off as a nut.

harper wrote:
any ideas?


About what?

harper wrote:
also -- where do we go to help clean up this mess (literally, i mean, in the actual mountains.)


Well right now, you can't. There are many organizations big and small in the San Gabriel Mtns who volunteer. I'm sure there will be many, many opportunities

I for one have maintained the Stone Cyn Trail for about the last 15 years alone for the most part, I'll be needing help over there Wink

There is probably 1-2 miles of rock falls and slides that will have to be cleared. That is just one trail

Matt
mattmaxon

Experimental MODIS map

I've been mucking around with the main source for the MODIS data

This seems to be a bit better than the other source I was using.

I "think" the time is GMT, or US EASTERN


harper

Re: Experimental MODIS map

man, this is nerve-wracking!!
(and wrecking, too -- ack!)
so buckhorn is stil intact, according to this map.

let me know when you go to clean/clear your trail (whenever that may be), i'll help.

harper




mattmaxon wrote:
I've been mucking around with the main source for the MODIS data

This seems to be a bit better than the other source I was using.

I "think" the time is GMT, or US EASTERN


Layne Cantrell

Re: Experimental MODIS map

harper wrote:
man, this is nerve-wracking!!
(and wrecking, too -- ack!)
so buckhorn is stil intact, according to this map.


I know, the waiting is just killing me. Hopefully I'm not driving you all nuts with my nervous energy.


Quote:

let me know when you go to clean/clear your trail (whenever that may be), i'll help.

harper


Ditto. Anyone needs a strong back/weak mind to pitch in let me know. Smile
Mike P

Mattmaxon, I have always thought of your posts before this thread as great for the list.  I definitely believe that a thorough review of tactics and such should be made and undoubtedly they will.

Are you a firefighter or trained in fighting these things? Is dousing a fire really as easy as you say? Let us know your cred and I'll crawl back under my rock.

Go for it. I look good in kevlar! Smile
cougarmagic

Easy there tigers.  People need to express their pain.  Let it be.
Mike P

Aw shucks, I was being polite...  Laughing
cougarmagic

Everyone was talking about 'putting out fires' - I got carried away.  Smile
Layne Cantrell

cougarmagic wrote:
Everyone was talking about 'putting out fires' - I got carried away.  Smile


Maybe a steel cage match officially sanctioned by the San Gabriel Mountain Forum would provide a nice distraction from recent events.

Matt vs. Mike in round one.

I don't want to fight "Hikeup" though, because he likes beer and I respect that. I like beer an awful lot m'self.
HikeUp

um...wtf?
Layne Cantrell

HikeUp wrote:
um...wtf?


I really liked the WWF when I was a kid. Sometimes I forget and think everyone did at some point. If not then my remarkably immature sense of humor makes absolutely no sense.

As for bringing up your name personally, well, I just wanted to work beer in there somewhere.

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