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VermillionPearlGirl

So how does this government shut down effect us exactly?

Just wondering what this means practically? Locked bathrooms? Closed gates?

(Strangely I encountered both of these things at Deukmejian this morning but as far as I know that park is owned by the city of Glendale, not the federal government. I think it's just a coincidence that they didn't open on time today?)
Breabonnie

This is all I know...


Due to a lapse in funding, the U.S. federal government has shut down.

During the shutdown, USA.gov will not be updated, but the website will be available. You can also get answers to government questions by calling 1-800-FED-INFO (1-800-333-4636), 8 AM - 8 PM (Eastern Time), Monday through Friday.

The federal government will remain shut down until Congress and the President pass a funding bill.

Learn the status of government services during the shutdown.
mattmaxon

Federal stuff closed, state and local is not affected.

I received an email from the FS volunteer coordinator that all volunteer work must stop...

Unfortunately, with the government in shutdown mode, all volunteers need to stop working.  Facilities in the Angeles National Forest are closed. Due to the fact the Forest Service cannot have volunteers being exposed to risk and possibly getting injured when the agency is not allowed to expend funds, all volunteer work must be curtailed. Once an appropriations bill is passed by Congress, we can all go back to work.

PISS OFF!
Breabonnie

Oops,  I'm sorry,

I meant to include the link at the bottom for you to find the status list.  Somewhere on their might be a list of services.  I just don't have the time presently to look it up.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/contingency-plans
RichardK

Shutdown

Any signs that the shutdown is effecting the San Gabes? Is the parking lot at Icehouse Canyon closed?  What about parking off the pavement at Manker Flat?  Are the trailheads signed closed? Will the ski lift operate this weekend? As a concessionaire, the ski lifts may be required to close.
AW

Exempt are district rangers, park rangers, scientists and firefighters....and trails.All the other developed amenities(aka Adventure pass areas),including campgrounds, are suspended/locked up eventually. Water will be turned off where available.

Anything NPS is closed... Santa Monica mountains,etc...

From what we've seen, I suspect anything that can be closed will be closed in the San Bernadino mountains. Whereas I would guess places like Icehouse and the East Fork will still be open here in the Angeles
tekewin

If anyone makes a trip to the San Gabes, please give us an on the ground report.

I suspect all gates will be closed, but places that are not gated like Ice House will be available.  Whether the park is officially closed may not matter where there is open access.

State and county parks will be open.
RichardK

Update

From many news stories on the net, it seems that the national forests will not be hit as hard as the national parks. While the parks are shutdown tight, public land in national forests will apparently remain open. Developed campgrounds and visitors centers in national forests will close, but the trails should still be open. National forest concessionaires (like the ski lifts) can remain open. I can't find any official announcement to back this up, but this "trails are open" story, more or less, is being reported on various news outlets and websites.
HikeUp

Traffic still sucks. I didn't vote for any of the butt monkeys in any elected position in this country, state, county, city, etc. So I'm blaming everyone else! Very Happy

I vote every election, but I'm on a massive losing streak.
Slowest_Hiker

Chantry Flat gate closed.

https://www.facebook.com/cityofsierramadre
ur2slo

This is getting way outta hand.......


Pay your taxes, vote, obey the laws, while we screw up the nation......yep the things I was taught, like For the people, by the people.....is not what they are doing. Boston Tea party time if you ask me my opinion. Lock and load, the crash is coming.   IMHO. of course  Smile  

9 TRILLION in debt, I cant write a check without $ in bank, how can they?

Politically correct is another way of saying I'm gonna tell a lie to you.

this quote was from a guy around 2009, it aint gotten any better....

"I used to build houses but then the Goldman Sacks thought it a good idea to securitize a bunch of mortgages written to part time minimum wage earners and resell them as triple A bonds."

Also in 07(?) The SEC killing naked short selling made a pile of money go poooof...gone.

For the people by the people........yea right.

Closed or not, the forests are ours.

Quaeritur Stultitiae............do it.

BTW Hike up....luv that comment on losing streak lol



Click to download file
PackerGreg

Meanwhile the multi-billion dollar NSA spy center in Utah is quietly up and running this week, fully staffed.
HikeUp

Have they found what's up your nose yet?

public (government) debt has never been a real issue (it's at healthy levels) and has always been the biggest red herring for both parties to push their agendas.

stop worrying about debt, and start worrying about efficiency & corruption.
mattmaxon

wrote:
public (government) debt has never been a real issue (it's at healthy levels) and has always been the biggest red herring for both parties to push their agendas.


Federal government debt isn't a problem. The federal government can make all the money they need.

They've been doing this with the "quantitative easing" The Chinese or anybody else that holds T-Bills will be paid in US Dollars.

If they used Yen Yuan or some other currency to purchase T-Bills they will be paid in US Dollars.

Federal Government Debt isn't like any other Debt. The ONLY thing that buying T-Bills or other investment denominated in US Dollars is FAITH in the US Economy and The Federal Government.

These CLOWNS need to stop (*&^^ around and come down from the ledge. Get their medication adjusted
Elwood

What about the absurd notion of fixing the broken clusterfuck that is health care delivery in our fine nation, perhaps rendering SOME of this moot.
PackerGreg

Gee, I hope they open the gates soon!...

"Already long ago, from when we sold our vote to no man, the People have abdicated our duties; for the People who once upon a time handed out military command, high civil office, legions — everything, now restrains itself and anxiously hopes for just two things: bread and circuses." ~Juvenal, Satire X, 100 AD
Hayduke

The Angeles NF is not closed like it usually is after a big fire. You can still drive up there and park and hike. If a campground has a gate on it, they'll probably close it but might not.

Don't take this out on the local Forest Service guys and gals, they're just doing what they have to do. They don't like not getting paid anymore than we like having national parks closed.
PackerGreg

BrownMtnBob

Yea, if there's a compground (car camping)....the gate to that parking lot will be closed.  I suspect ALL "national forest" road (designated "N" xxxx) are gated.    I ride a motorcycle and just go around it.

Nobody can "close the forest".  Sorry Charlie.
ur2slo

mattmaxon wrote:
wrote:
public (government) debt has never been a real issue (it's at healthy levels) and has always been the biggest red herring for both parties to push their agendas.


Federal government debt isn't a problem. The federal government can make all the money they need.

They've been doing this with the "quantitative easing" The Chinese or anybody else that holds T-Bills will be paid in US Dollars.

If they used Yen Yuan or some other currency to purchase T-Bills they will be paid in US Dollars.

Federal Government Debt isn't like any other Debt. The ONLY thing that buying T-Bills or other investment denominated in US Dollars is FAITH in the US Economy and The Federal Government.

These CLOWNS need to stop (*&^^ around and come down from the ledge. Get their medication adjusted


Well said....

ya kno what the motto on the first coin in the original colonies was? No, not "in God we trust". it was "Mind your Business", aimed at the British gov at the time...
Maybe the 40 billion in worthless paper we are pumping up the M2 supply monthly so as to allow China to get a bluelight special on us, should carry that.... Laughing
VermillionPearlGirl

Yeah, not to betray my image as an outdoorsy woman, but I do in fact like to use the various public restrooms throughout the forest Smile Especially after driving an hour to ice house or red box. So I've been staying a little closer to home until I find out that these facilities are still accessible Smile

As it is, they've started locking the bathrooms at the Baldy Visitor Center when it's not actually open which I could swear didn't used to be the case.

Also, if the Chantry gate is closed (as someone noted) that's exactly the kind of inconvenience I'm attempting to uncover!
Taco

Icehouse's bathrooms were open the other day.
yobtaf

so the family was thinking of going to apple tree campground just pass wrightwood. It is right off the road and only needs a adventure pass to camp there. Im wondering if it will be closed, or just the restroom will be locked? And if it is closed how long will we be in jail for camping there? Shocked
mattmaxon

If there is a lock on the gate. Its a ask almost certainly closed. as to how long? Ask these dip shits in washington dc
PackerGreg

Go camping. It's high time for peaceful civil disobedience.
yobtaf

Im going!!! Its our spot for quick car camping with the little ones. Its like playing homeless for the night.
Taco

Is the illuminati closed too?
ur2slo

And no twearking until further notice...... Laughing

Happy Trails.......
Hikin_Jim

OK, so here's a copy of the nationwide forest closure order:


The closure order is done under the authority of CFR 36 § 261.53.  However, CFR 36 also lists some requirements that the USFS must comply with in order for the closure to be valid in § 261.51, for example, the closure order must be posted:

Quote:
§ 261.51
Posting.
Posting is accomplished by:
(a) Placing a copy of the order imposing each prohibition in the offices of the Forest Supervisor and District Ranger, or equivalent officer who have jurisdiction over the lands affected by the order, and
(b) Displaying each prohibition imposed by an order in such locations and manner as to reasonably bring the prohibition to the attention of the public.


So, per § 261.51 (b) as cited above, if it isn't posted as closed, it ain't closed.

The closures in the ANF I'm aware of are ranger stations, visitor centers (Crystal Lake, Chilao, and Grassy Hollow), campgrounds, and bathrooms.  The only "area" type closure I'm aware of is Chantry Flats; the road to Chantry is gated and locked.

HJ

P.S.  For those interested, here is the specific section cited for the above Forest Closure order:
Quote:
§ 261.53
Special closures.
When provided in an order, it is prohibited to go into or be upon any area which is closed for the protection of:
(a) Threatened, endangered, rare, unique, or vanishing species of plants, animals, birds or fish.
(b) Special biological communities.
(c) Objects or areas of historical, archeological, geological, or paleontological interest.
(d) Scientific experiments or investigations.
(e) Public health or safety.
(f) Property.

This particular order cites parts (e) and (f) which I have bolded above.
PackerGreg

Signed Tom Tidwell, Timber Lobbyist, Chief of USDA Forest Service.

"...an act of the legislature, repugnant to the constitution, is void" ~Justice John Marshall, Marbury v. Madison, 5 U.S. (1 Cranch) 137; 2 L. Ed. 60 (1803)
Uncle Rico

I wipe my ass with Tidwell's closure order.
Slowest_Hiker

Crystal Lake on Sunday, with restroom report

Went to Crystal Lake on Sunday.  Cafe open.  USFS parking lot next to the cafe open.  Gates at the roads to the lake and campsites closed.  Gate to Coldbrook CG closed, with "No Overnight Camping" sign taped on the gate.  Hiked to S. Mt. Hawkins and did not see another soul outside of the immediate Cafe area.  Checked some restrooms near the trail -- some locked, but one at the trailhead near a sign for loops H and F was open.  Also pretty sure I saw someone go into the one right at the entrance to the picnic parking.  

Also, the South Mt Hawkins restroom is Way Open, same as it was here:
http://sangabrielmnts.myfreeforum.org/viewtopic.php?t=4616&start=2
everyday

Since I not only work, but also live in a national park, this hasnt affected me badly at all, I simply have even MORE time to run than usual. All of us DNC employees still can stay at our homes inside the park, and come an go as we please, AND theres no crowds, which is souper awesome. AND in just the first 7 days of being closed to outsiders (aka tourists)  our animal activity in yosemite valley has increased by 300%. which is also awesome, theres bobcats and bears everywhere, and 2! mountain lions by Camp 4, and all the car smog n campfire smoke is gone so the sky is even bluer than normal.  Im seein only good out of this. Smile  OH! AND! we got a vacation! a paid vacation, we dont work til the shutdown ends.
HikeUp

You're welcome.  Laughing
VermillionPearlGirl

Whew. Went up to Dawson Saddle this weekend and found several road side bathrooms fully open Smile

When I got back to the car though, I realized I had forgotten to put up my Adventure Pass... but, uh, there's no one around to notice?

In other news, there were rocks all over the road, some big ones. But Caltrans is still in business right? Smile

I also saw that closure order posted here and still can't make any sense of what it's supposed to mean...
Hikin_Jim

VermillionPearlGirl wrote:
I also saw that closure order posted here and still can't make any sense of what it's supposed to mean...
Neither can the Forest Service if that's any help.

HJ

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