| Archive for San Gabriel Mountains Discussion Forum Open discussion board for activities in the San Gabriel Mountains in Southern California |
| MtnMan |
Angeles National Forest Closure Modified, Thursday Oct 1More info coming soon (check the ANF website as it will be updated later today with a map and revised closure area), but as of today, most areas NOT in the Station Fire burn area have re-opened to public use.Fire danger is at extreme, so no campfires or BBQ's on the forest. http://www.fs.fed.us/r5/angeles/ |
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| mattmaxon |
WAHOO! | ||||
| Zé |
great! although I see no news of this yet... | ||||
| MtnMan |
yeah, it's fresh news, so give it a little time. They are still hashing out the specifics.
Only thing I've noticed on the website so far is the closure scrolling they had across the top web page is gone. Closure signs are still up and most gates are still closed in most areas, too, so give that some time as well. |
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| lik2hik |
Spoke to the guy at the Baldy Visitors center a few minutes ago by phone, and according to him, the trails up there are open as of this morning!
I specifically asked about Icehouse Canyon and he said they are all open up there. |
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| AW |
http://www.wrightwoodfsc.com/StationFire/StationFireClosure10.1.09.pdf
the closed area is closed until Oct 2010 or later. Includes: Chantry Flats and most back frontrange trails Highway 39(including Twin Peaks) |
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| HikeUp |
Exhibit A & B seem to have been updated to show the new extents of a closure.
Links are to pdf files found on ANF site. |
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| AW |
Just my 2 cents, but this is entirely unworkable.
The most problematic looks like the East Fork San Gabriel river will be open, west&north fork closed. That will lead to a massive headache in traffic and use. The rest of it is like good luck with the enforcement. All I can say is Im not bringing some closure map with me on any hike. |
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| Zé |
can they actually make a map with DECENT RESOLUTION? wtf | ||||
| Zé |
the 39 is on the boundary, but is the 39 itself actually closed?
same question with Mt Wilson Toll Road? |
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| HikeUp |
Same question with all the boundaries that follow trails or roads. | ||||
| AW |
Could use GMR if the 39 remains closed til the cows come home...but the 39 is not listed. The MtWilson toll road 2N45, looks like its on ANF property and will be closed at Idlehour trail.... Overall looks like no glimpse of the burn area is the intention...looks like it even blocks Sam Merrill for quite a ways. |
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| Socalhiker |
X2 
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| Layne Cantrell |
x 3! Can anyone tell if highway two to Buckhorn is open? (heading west from Wrightwood) Looks like they left a little pocket above highway 2 and east of Cloudburst open. |
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| TacoDelRio |
Regarding R39 and GMR/GRR, I read that they're only open to residents with ID. Reckon this is still the case despite today being OCT 1, yes? | ||||
| AW |
I would love to be proven wrong on it.....but it does state the closure area goes along these boundaries  And if it does contain the trails then its just a lazy and way too conservative job on it....its like yeah, you can go to Buckhorn, just dont take the Burkhart trail or Hwy2.
Sure go to Hoeges camp, just take the LSA trail to Winter Creek and descend to Hoeges. Or trying to go to Muir Peak?  I'd tell you then Id have to kill you 
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| HikeUp |
LOL @ Muir. I'll risk it...go ahead and tell me! | ||||
| Zé |
hey don't you remember my brushy exploration SW ridge of Muir? I already found a way. There might be a better way. | ||||
| Zé |
so it lists all the boundaries of the closed region. are the trails / roads ON the boundary closed? in some cases it mentions the 'west' or 'east' side of the road as the boundary, but in many cases it doesn't mention either. | ||||
| Elwood |
Let's call this a derivative artwork. Extracted the blue closure boundary from the horrible pdf. Scaled it and slightly rotated it to register with the gridlines of the forest service visitor's map. Composited it with higher-resolution image of same. Created JPEG. This is slightly more legible than the official document but not to be construed as authoritative by any means. I'm also confused as to why the Kentucky Shooting area registers so badly. The layered PSD file is sitting here if anyone wants to play with it.
"www.electricskates.com/Pix/Other/CMAP.psd" 
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| HikeUp |
Cool. Where'd ya get the hi-res version of the ANF map? | ||||
| AW |
Hows this?
http://www.socaltrailriders.org/f...eles-national-forest-closure.html |
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| HikeUp |
My question is unanswered, at least definitively. Joe Truth (lol@name) seems to be erring on the safe side, where as my interpretation is that the trails and roads that form the boundary are open. But as usual, who the heck knows for sure. I'd bet if you were on the Mt. Wilson Toll Road above Idlehour Trail Head, and you came across 2 different rangers, one would write you a ticket or warning, and the other would say hello and warn you not to stray from the road on the closure side.
Unless I hear more definitive news regarding this, I'm planning on hiking the Toll Road up to Mt. Wilson next weekend. |
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| Zé |
you're such a rebel. WWFOD? | ||||
| HikeUp |
Ze...you're gonna get banned for comments like that! 
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| Hikin_Jim |
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| TacoDelRio |
He'd probably go cry in a corner in his house.
He's probably going to read this, and go cry in a corner of his house, but not before he complains on whatever forum hasn't banned him yet (summitpost). |
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| AW |
You mean the entire closed section becomes a Crystal Lake? Or a Snow Creek?
Its easy to bash the Forest Service here, but what would be a realistic plan? Could start talking about a permit system, but you aint getting my vote for that even if it means anarchy as the other option. |
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| HikeUp |
I can be very dense for most of my awake hours but I'm not sure wtf you're talking about AW  - what am I missing?
I want the Forest Service to tell me in clear language whether I can walk on the trails and roads that form the boundary of the closure area. Seems like one should be able to do so, or at least walk 1 inch to the non-closure side of the trail /road. Anyway, what's tiresome about almost everything the Forest does is that it is almost always ambiguous at best. Very tiresome. |
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| MtnMan |
move to the beach then.
otherwise use your noggin, do some fingerwork and call someone instead of whining. I agree things can often be ambiguous with the USFS, and the people within the agency suck at communicating sometimes, but in their defense, things like this are not as simple as closing a ride at Disneyland. Gerry R. is your best bet for the LA Dist.. 818-899-1900 x228 He's usually in his office office Sunday -Thurs. I'm not sure who would be the best contact on the San Gabriel RRD... maybe Lois P....? SCMRRD for Wrightwood area, call Todd Big Pines at 760-249=3504 on Friday- Sun. |
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| Zé |
i'm sorry but that is utter bullshit. 1) 7 times out of 10, I call them about something and they screw up. they respond with a FALSE statement. in these situations they are either lying, think they know but they don't, or know they don't know but pretend they do 2) 2 times out of 10 they actually say "i don't know" 3) 1 time out of 10 they actually are right (i.e. I called Mt Baldy visitor center and they confirmed Baldy Ski Lift was open but couldn't hike there) so, no, "fingerwork" is practically useless. it's a damn shame too. things like this are not as simple as closing a ride at Disneyland i don't think anyone is knocking them for taking time to decide what the closed boundaries should be. once they make a decision, however, they are simply not clear. not straightforward. Visualization of a closed area is important. They have just about the crappiest map resolution I've seen uploaded for people to view what is "closed". Give me a break. Upload a goddamn better resolution map. It's not that hard. Hell Elwood did a better job in his spare time. What a fucking joke. |
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| MtnMan |
I agree about the piss-poor map, and the lame effort sometimes put forth on alot of things the USFS does. Like the pathetic thing called a website and information exhanging. It could (and should!) be so much better.
I also agree that your average person that answers the phone at some USFS offices is often clueless. However, that's why I gave some specific names of people that usually know what's going on, and actually get out there and do some of the same things many of us here love to do. There are actually a few good, knowledgeable people that work for the Angeles. You just gotta know who they are, get in touch with them, and try not to rely on the stuff that is meant for the masses (which again, should still be better than it is). 
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| HikeUp |
I agree with everything you just said. There are reasons things aren't communicated properly, clearly, or whatever. Like underfunding, politics, under-staffing, blah blah blah. But that doesn't eliminate the fact that things aren't communicated properly, clearly or whatever. I'm just pointing out that fact in hopes that someone can offer clarity. You have done so and thanks. I'll give those people a call (and without those names, it would be a crap shoot). Sorry it sounds like whining, but it isn't. See ya on the boundaries! Or in jail. |
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| Layne Cantrell |
Couldn't get an answer about boundaries/open highways/trails from Mike McIntyre. Asked him about Buckhorn specifically, but he said it won't be accessible from the highway until November - right when they close it.
I asked about getting there from Wrightwood which I'm not sure he was clear on. In any case I'm not sure how they'd open the highway all the way up there and also maintain the closures. Very confusing stuff indeed. |
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| cougarmagic |
I'm going up to Vincent Gap, and hopefully farther, tomorrow, so I'll let you all know what I find out. If there is anyone to ask, I specifically am going to find out about being able to walk or bike ACH beyond Islip Saddle. | ||||
| Layne Cantrell |
You're my hero! I crave information!!! Must... have... info... |
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| MtnMan |
Highway 2 from the Wrightwood side is now re-opened to vehicles to Vincent Gap. That's where the closed gate is.
Legally, you can walk/bike past the gate at Vincent Gap at this time, but the area is behind a gate, and not patrolled, so you're on your own, and you may encounter fire/construction traffic/horny bighorn sheep (and if something happens, don't sue anyone.  )
Now, if Cal-Trans or CHP decides they want to kick you out, that's their right since it's a state hwy. However, USFS does not have a closure to public entry behind the Vincent Gap gate to Islip Saddle gate. Next: The official Fire Closure area begins AT Islip Saddle, so you're not supposed to go any further west than that on road or trail. So no, Buckhorn is not accessible at all right now even though part of the closure boundary straddles Hwy 2. There was slopover from the fire near Cloudburst Summit. Layne, what other info do you want about "boundaries/open highways/trails"? I have a hard time believing Mike M couldn't answer any of your questions. He's a pretty sharp guy. |
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| Layne Cantrell |
This was exactly what I was wondering about. Its confusing since the highway acts as part of the boundary. My question is whether or not the highway itself is off limits since the area north of it is open all the way to Cloudburst.
I crave any info about the Islip/Buckhorn area. Mike M is the MAN - he fed me as much info via email as he could during this whole ordeal. I think I just didn't phrase my question right. His answer had to do with how I'd reach/not reach Buckhorn from Glendale instead of Wrightwood which is what I meant to ask him about. |
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| simonov |
Zé, the problems you are experiencing are due to the Forest Service not having local specialists in graphics and communications who can ensure that policies are clearly promulgated throughout the agency and to the public. Everything is being done ad hoc.
The way it works is, the District Supervisor determines they need a map of the closure area, and canvasses the office to see if there's anyone who can use Photoshop. Someone raises her hand and she gets the job. |
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| AW |
I was getting ahead of the discussion perhaps...heres a snipet from that forum... "But there are closed trails and roads that intersect with the open areas. If we see traffic on the closed area trails and roads and the people are accessing from the open trails and routes, then we will take a tough look at closing trails and roads that are now open." Add this to the AFH&ACH opening up sometime this year. Think that the boundaries can possibly be explained and complied with? Most of the public does not go to the website or call a certain mr.X at the office. Thus the direction we are headed is chronic closures...the leading example being Crystal Lake...unless MtnMan or anyone can explain why that area is closed besides the official law of the land. The Station fire was a game changer and thus far, all the planning is like nothing ever happened...its just burnt...its just not realistic. So after the public is walking on the closed areas..now what? I suppose in Crystal Lake its closed but look the other way is the policy...thus people who want to comply get left out in the cold....and then when you call them like I did back in 2006 when it was 100% that the Crystal Lake was going to open, you get informed the opening date was changed to a date to be determined...dont even bother calling now...and thats the path we are headed toward on this Station fire area. In addition, we have these crazy plans like the AFH is going to be commuter only and 'civilized' as if anyone really believes that will happen...or as mentioned , the East Fork SG river can hold the entire Hwy39 crowd...once 39 opens ...its simply going to be overcapacity everywhere near or in the closed section.
Thats the best case scenario IMO. I think even more realistic is landslides occur and make the place closed forever due to no highway access. In the worst case scenario, the fire setters move east now and the potential for the east side being scorched is now is much greater. Thats why I mentioned a permit system that limits access(sometimes as low as 12 people per day) but still provides it....go to the office, sign away the forest liability,etc... My thinking is we go out there and preserve the roads...massive volunteer effort...wouldnt care if the cliffside had to be covered in cement...whatever we can do to stop landslides. For the open/closed line, right now its OK, but also volunteers to get more trail open like the MtWilson toll road. And open the West Fork SG river for sure. |
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| cougarmagic |
Thanks for the good information, MtnMan. I'm so jaded about calling rangers, I just go look for myself at this point. But, you were absolutely right - big closed gate at Vincent Gap. There were few cars in the Baden Powell parking lot, so I guess not many people know it's open yet.
Layne - couldn't get near Buckhorn, but I hiked up from South Fork almost to Islip saddle, and it looks green, beautiful, with dark blue skies, fresh air and lots of life. I am sure Buckhorn is the same!! I expected to see ash on the leaves, but there was none. It was really good to see. |
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| edenooch |
And some good got on my case once about the FS being incompetent! |
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| Layne Cantrell |
Again, you're my hero! I actually went up to Wrightwood to visit my brother who rented a cabin there - about three hours after I got there, my triumphant return to the Angeles, we were evacuated. Very traumatic. |
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