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Poles of Inaccessibility in the San Gabriels

 
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dima



Joined: 12 Feb 2014
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Location: Los Angeles

PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2015 7:57 pm    Post subject: Poles of Inaccessibility in the San Gabriels  Reply with quote

So Sean, tekewin and I were talking about what the least accessible location in the San Gabriels would be. It seems like it'd be a worthwhile place to visit if we only knew where it was. Well, wonder no more: http://caltopo.com/m/4N7A

Defining "accessibility" by how close the nearest road/trail is, I ran two computations: one staying away from all roads and trails, and another staying away from roads, but not avoiding trails. Both points appear to be in the vicinity of Ross Mountain. Getting to the main pole doesn't look like it would be too bad, approaching from Ross. It'd be nice to do a through-hike, descending down the East fork from there, but getting down from the pole to Iron Fork looks super steep. In any case, looks like as good a place to visit as any :)

For those who care, details of the computation are here: http://notes.secretsauce.net/note...in-the-san-gabriel-mountains.html
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turtle



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Location: Sherman Oaks, CA

PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2015 12:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Poles of Inaccessibility in the San Gabriels Reply with quote

dima wrote:
For those who care, details of the computation are here: http://notes.secretsauce.net/note...in-the-san-gabriel-mountains.html

Wow... wonderful!

Would definitely be up for a visit to one or both Poles sometime, if you or any other forum members want to make the trip.

Thanks for asking a good question, and even more thanks for carrying out the really nifty analysis to get a definitive answer.  Very Happy
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tekewin



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Location: Aliso Viejo

PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2015 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dima,

As a computer guy, I am quite impressed with your calculations. Thanks for doing the work. Both points look difficult to reach. The "roads only" one looks like it is in very dense forest.
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Taco
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Joined: 27 Sep 2007
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Location: Stuntin in the trap son

PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2015 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's pretty cool. A cool area as well.
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Sean
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Location: Monterey Park, CA

PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2015 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's really cool. Thanks for doing the math. I've been to Ross. Now I guess I need to go back and check out those poles.

How hard would it be to factor in vegetation density? CalTopo stats include Tree Cover and Land Cover. Typically I think it is harder to bushwhack through dense shrub areas than dense tree areas.
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dima



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Location: Los Angeles

PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2015 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sean wrote:
How hard would it be to factor in vegetation density? CalTopo stats include Tree Cover and Land Cover. Typically I think it is harder to bushwhack through dense shrub areas than dense tree areas.


Including vegetation density would require significantly more work; at the very least the method I'm using (Voronoi diagrams) wouldn't apply. I do like the simplicity and well-definedness of what I did because if somebody else at some point in the future has this question, they're likely to get the same answer. So when these other people go visit the poles, they'd find the register or whatever else we leave there (maybe somebody already left someting!) Making this more complex makes it more likely that multiple equally "right" answer could exist. If you want to make it more difficult, you can go back/forth several times :)
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Hikin_Jim
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Location: Orange County, CA

PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2015 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ross Mountain?  Iron Fork?  Sounds about right.  "Hmm" said Hikin Jim.

HJ
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Slowest_Hiker



Joined: 31 Jul 2011
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Location: Sierra Madre

PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2015 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for this!  In addition to being interesting, I learned some marketable OSM skillz.

I do notice a couple potential inaccuracies in the OSM dataset in the area.  First, the segment from Lupine to Cabin Flat has been officially declassified as a road (no motor vehicles allowed), but OSM thinks it's a "track" suitable for jeeps.  Second, it lacks the Vincent Gulch trail from Vincent Gap down to the old Mine Gulch site & Cabin Flat.   But that's not the fault of the analysis.

BTW (pardon my googling), we seem to have an undergraduate institution in common.
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dima



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Location: Los Angeles

PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2015 9:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Slowest_Hiker wrote:
I do notice a couple potential inaccuracies in the OSM dataset in the area.  First, the segment from Lupine to Cabin Flat has been officially declassified as a road (no motor vehicles allowed), but OSM thinks it's a "track" suitable for jeeps.  Second, it lacks the Vincent Gulch trail from Vincent Gap down to the old Mine Gulch site & Cabin Flat.   But that's not the fault of the analysis.


Yeah, the data isn't perfect, and a lot of time it's not even obvious what "perfect" means. For instance OSM says the trail up the East Fork doesn't go past the bridge. That's not really true, but it becomes much less of a "trail" soon thereafter. So I'm happy with just taking the current results and calling them the true Pole of Inaccessibility. Because I said so :)

Oh, and if you know of a missing trail down from Vincent Gap, you should add it.
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