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Stag BM, who marked it?

 
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tekewin



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Location: Aliso Viejo

PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2015 3:59 pm    Post subject: Stag BM, who marked it?  Reply with quote

I noticed a small peak off Ortega Highway in the Cleveland National Forest in Caltopo with a benchmark symbol named "Stag". I searched the USGS name database and didn't find it.  It also doesn't exist in the Orange County Geodetic kmz that anyone can download. All search engines turn up squat. It doesn't exist in peakbagger or lists of john. My research skills are coming up short.

Here is a map with a possible route to it from Caspers Regional Park:
http://caltopo.com/m/5B0S

My question is how did it get on Caltopo and who marked it and/or named it?

There is a higher bump on the ridge nearby and is surrounded by at least a half mile of nasty chaparral. I doubt there is a marker on it. Could it just be a Caltopo mistake?
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atomicoyote



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Location: on the road to Purgatory

PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2015 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since it really close to the county line, check and make sure it isn't in Riverside County.  You might have to check with Riverside's Public Works office to find something.  

If its got a good vantage point of the surroundings it might have been put in by local surveyors as a marker, rather than using a higher , less accessable peak in the area.  One of my brothers is a surveyor and has to 'find' these once in a while.
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tekewin



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Location: Aliso Viejo

PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2015 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Atomiccoyote,

Thanks for the suggestion. I checked the County of Riverside Geodetic Control online map and it isn't there. It is definitely in Orange County, but not by much.
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Pat



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Location: Ontario

PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2015 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BM Stag DX4342 description at Geocaching.com

NGS Search:
http://www.ngs.noaa.gov/cgi-bin/ds_desig.prl

Data from search:

PROGRAM = datasheet95, VERSION = 8.7
1        National Geodetic Survey,   Retrieval Date = MAY  4, 2015
DX4342 ***********************************************************************
DX4342  DESIGNATION -  STAG
DX4342  PID         -  DX4342
DX4342  STATE/COUNTY-  CA/ORANGE
DX4342  COUNTRY     -  US
DX4342  USGS QUAD   -  CANADA GOBERNADORA (1988)
DX4342
DX4342                         *CURRENT SURVEY CONTROL
DX4342  ______________________________________________________________________
DX4342* NAD 83(1992) POSITION- 33 37 23.03435(N) 117 31 26.62975(W)   ADJUSTED  
DX4342* NAD 83(1992) EPOCH   -  1991.35
DX4342* NAVD 88 ORTHO HEIGHT -  1735.    (meters)     5692.    (feet) VERTCON  
DX4342  ______________________________________________________________________
DX4342  GEOID HEIGHT    -        -33.42  (meters)                     GEOID12B
DX4342  LAPLACE CORR    -          8.45  (seconds)                    DEFLEC12B
DX4342  HORZ ORDER      -  THIRD
DX4342
DX4342.The horizontal coordinates were established by classical geodetic methods
DX4342.and adjusted by the National Geodetic Survey in June 1996.
DX4342.
DX4342.The NAVD 88 height was computed by applying the VERTCON shift value to
DX4342.the NGVD 29 height (displayed under SUPERSEDED SURVEY CONTROL.)
DX4342
DX4342.The Laplace correction was computed from DEFLEC12B derived deflections.
DX4342
DX4342. The following values were computed from the NAD 83(1992) position.
DX4342
DX4342;                    North         East     Units Scale Factor Converg.
DX4342;SPC CA 6     -   662,242.268 1,881,785.410   MT  0.99996683   -0 42 00.4
DX4342;SPC CA 6     - 2,172,706.51  6,173,824.30   sFT  0.99996683   -0 42 00.4
DX4342;UTM  11      - 3,720,486.562   451,390.864   MT  0.99962913   -0 17 24.7
DX4342
DX4342!             -  Elev Factor  x  Scale Factor =   Combined Factor
DX4342!SPC CA 6     -   0.99973298  x   0.99996683  =   0.99969982
DX4342!UTM  11      -   0.99973298  x   0.99962913  =   0.99936221
DX4342
DX4342:                Primary Azimuth Mark                     Grid Az
DX4342:SPC CA 6     -  VIEW                                     243 29 33.3
DX4342:UTM  11      -  VIEW                                     243 04 57.6
DX4342
DX4342|---------------------------------------------------------------------|
DX4342| PID    Reference Object                     Distance      Geod. Az  |
DX4342|                                                           dddmmss.s |
DX4342| DX4343 VIEW                                APPROX. 2.5 KM 2424732.9 |
DX4342|---------------------------------------------------------------------|
DX4342
DX4342                          SUPERSEDED SURVEY CONTROL
DX4342
DX4342  NAD 83(1986)-  33 37 23.03206(N)    117 31 26.62917(W) AD(1984.00) 3
DX4342  NAD 27      -  33 37 22.95499(N)    117 31 23.46522(W) AD(       ) 3
DX4342  NGVD 29 (07/19/86) 1734.     (m)         5689.     (f) VERT ANG      
DX4342
DX4342.Superseded values are not recommended for survey control.
DX4342
DX4342.NGS no longer adjusts projects to the NAD 27 or NGVD 29 datums.
DX4342.See file dsdata.txt to determine how the superseded data were derived.
DX4342
DX4342_U.S. NATIONAL GRID SPATIAL ADDRESS: 11SMT5139020486(NAD 83)
DX4342
DX4342_MARKER: DD = SURVEY DISK
DX4342_SETTING: 0 = UNSPECIFIED SETTING
DX4342_STABILITY: D = MARK OF QUESTIONABLE OR UNKNOWN STABILITY
DX4342
DX4342  HISTORY     - Date     Condition        Report By
DX4342  HISTORY     - 1939     MONUMENTED       USE
DX4342
DX4342                          STATION DESCRIPTION
DX4342
DX4342'DESCRIBED BY US ENGINEERS 1939
DX4342'MARK IS A DISK SET IN CONCRETE MONUMENT, STAMPED TRI. STAG, V.A.
DX4342'2276, 1651--4694.  4896.
DX4342'
DX4342'FROM SAN JUAN GUARD STATION GO WEST ON HIGHWAY 74 TO FIRST IRON
DX4342'GATE ON RIGHT SIDE OF ROAD, TURN RIGHT THRU GATE AND FOLLOW TRUCK
DX4342'TRAIL ABOUT 2.0 MILES UP CANYON THRU HERR RANCH GATE TO POINT WHERE
DX4342'ROAD FORKS, TURN RIGHT AND FOLLOW TO END OF ROAD AT FENCE.  LEAVE
DX4342'TRUCK AND WALK ABOUT 2.0 MILES NORTH, STAYING ON HIGHEST RIDGE ON
DX4342'WHICH SAN JUAN FIREBREAK IS LOCATED.  FOLLOW TO CROSSING OF
DX4342'FIREBREAK TO EAST.  STATION IS 70 FEET SOUTH OF THIS POINT ON
DX4342'HIGHEST PART OF HILL.
DX4342'
DX4342'REFERENCE MARK 1 IS A U.S. FOREST SERVICE SIGN POST READING SAN
DX4342'JUAN FIREBREAK, STAMPED WITH ARROW AND DISTANCE POINTING TO
DX4342'STATION.
DX4342'
DX4342'REFERENCE MARK 2 IS A DISK SET IN A ROCK OUTCROPPING, STAMPED
DX4342'R.M. 2 TRI. STAG, 18 FEET.


Last edited by Pat on Mon May 04, 2015 10:29 am; edited 1 time in total
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tekewin



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Location: Aliso Viejo

PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2015 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pat,

Awesome data find! I'll add geocaching.com and the NOAA site for future searches.

This was interesting in the data sheet:
STABILITY: D = MARK OF QUESTIONABLE OR UNKNOWN STABILITY

I think it has been a long time since anyone has been there or verified the mark, but I see no reason it should not be there.
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atomicoyote



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Location: on the road to Purgatory

PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2015 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tekewin wrote:
Pat,

Awesome data find! I'll add geocaching.com and the NOAA site for future searches.

This was interesting in the data sheet:
STABILITY: D = MARK OF QUESTIONABLE OR UNKNOWN STABILITY


I think it has been a long time since anyone has been there or verified the mark, but I see no reason it should not be there.


Not only that, but did you notice the height?  

DX4342* NAD 83(1992) POSITION- 33 37 23.03435(N) 117 31 26.62975(W)   ADJUSTED  
DX4342* NAD 83(1992) EPOCH   -  1991.35
DX4342* NAVD 88 ORTHO HEIGHT -  1735.    (meters)     5692.    (feet) VERTCON  

5692 ft/1735 meters makes it the second highest peak in the Santa Ana Mtns!  higher than Modjeska Peak (5500 ft) and just below Santiago Peak (5900 ft)!
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tekewin



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Location: Aliso Viejo

PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2015 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, it is certainly not 5692', it is at 2272' according to the topo. Maybe that is just bad data.

Is it possible that the "NAVD" means navigation distance instead of the actual vertical height of the mark?

The written directions for getting to it from the San Juan Station look accurate to me. There is possibly a shorter way to get to it from the Los Pinos Ridge trail, but you would have to grind through worse brush and drop down into Cold Spring Canyon and climb out of it, probably wading through dense poison oak.
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Pat



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Location: Ontario

PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2015 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From the data sheet, it looks like the original stamping is 2276'.
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tekewin



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Location: Aliso Viejo

PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2015 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks again for the help in researching this.

Made the trip out there, but didn't find the benchmark. The area is very overgrown, though there were remnants of an old firebreak on the ridge. Posted a trip report here.
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Sean
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Location: Monterey Park, CA

PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2015 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did you look for the rock outcropping where they put RM 2? That's probably your best bet. The BM monument is probably buried. Take a shovel next time.
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tekewin



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Location: Aliso Viejo

PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2015 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did look for RM2. There was one significant outcropping just below the summit, but the rocks were somewhat broken with no one obvious biggest rock. The BM and RMs could also be under overgrowth or one of large wood rat nests. We spent about 15 minutes just looking around for marks.

If I go back, I'll make sure I have all the GPS coordinates loaded and try digging a little.
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