If you have time, post an update on the water at Kellys. I bet it's still running, albeit slowly. I drank the water straight out of the pipe last time I was there (July). Good and cold. _________________ Backpacking stove reviews and information: †Adventures In Stoving Personal hiking blog: †Hikin' Jim's Blog
Was up there today (8/31). The pipe is still flowing. It took a little over a minute-and-a-half to fill a 1 liter bottle. 4 weeks ago, it was 1 liter per minute, so hopefully it will keep going for some time yet!
As of 8/31, the pipe is still flowing. It takes a little over 1 1/2 minutes to fill a 1 liter bottle. 4 weeks ago, it took a minute. So it is slowing down, but hopefully it will keep on going for a while yet.
Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 7:12 am Post subject: Talk to me about Kelly's Camp
I'm going to be leading a couple groups of noob backpackers up to Kelly's Camp this summer and I was wondering if anyone had any advice concerning this particular camp. I'll go up for an overnight sometime before I take the noobs, but in the meantime I thought I'd ask around for some information.
For example, how reliable is the water there? I gather it's pretty reliable, though Columbine is most reliable of all. It's just a bit of a drag carrying a lot of water up the hill from Columbine. Can I depend on water in August?
And what about bears? I insist everyone use bearproof containers when overnighting in the San Gorgonio Wilderness, but is this necessary in the San Gabriels? _________________ The future had clearly gotten out of hand.
Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 9:17 am Post subject: Kellys Camp
There is a spring at Kellys at the western end of the camp. Here is a picture made in June 2008. The flow in August may or may not be this much. Columbine always has water even in the driest years.
A few years ago, a ranger told us a story. Some Boy Scouts were camping at Kellys when a bear entered the camp in the middle of the night. Scouts and leaders were so scared that they packed up and hiked out in the dark. I have seen signs in Baldy Village warning residents not to put out wet garbage until the day of pickup due to bears. So, it looks like there are bears around.
Last year, I checked out the spring a couple of times in August. On 8/2 it was flowing at about 1 liter per minute. On 8/31 it was down to about 2/3 liter per minute. Based on that, it seems to gradually slow down over a fairly long period of time. So if you check it out ahead of time, you should have a pretty good indication.
I guess a lot would depend on how much rain/snow and when. Hopefully we will do much better this year than last year.
Bear cans are a good way to teach noobs how to pack food efficiently.
I saw that you were leading some noob classes to Kellys on the OCHBC site. Good choice for a location. A little tougher than Johns Meadow but should be OK for people in reasonable shape.
You may already know exactly where the two pipes are (there are two by the way, both within maybe 15' of each other), but just in case, here's an excerpt from an Ontario Peak TR with some detail as to where the "springs" are:
Basically, when you get to Kellys Camp, which is marked with a sign, you'll find a large flat area. Go to the western most edge of the flat area. At the western most edge of the flat area, you'll find yourself overlooking a gully. On the southmost (left) portion of the western most edge of the flat area, you'll see a use trail leading toward a bright green spot consisting of a patch of short lush grass. Follow the use trail (it's maybe +/-30' long) to the grassy area and look for a small pipe (see the photo in the Kelly Camp Spring thread here in the Trip Reports section) coming out of the ground. You don't have to drop much into the gully. The use trail descends just a bit on a gradual incline. If you find yourself really dropping into the gully, you're off track. Be careful of course not to disturb the pipe when you collect water. It's flushed out continuously so long as it's undisturbed but you could shake loose something if you were to jiggle the pipe. There's a small pool below the pipe if you prefer to filter.
As for bears... I've spent a bunch of time climbing on Ontario's Northern side, and have seen a small "family" of bears once. I guess it couldn't hurt, but if you didn't get it in time or whatever, no biggie.
The bears in most local areas are nothing like the bears up in the Sierra. I normally bring an Ursack just out of prudence, but many of my friends still bear bag. We've never lost any food anywhere in the San Gabs/San Berdoos/San Jacs, but then we've hardly seen any bears and those we have seen just turned around and left when they saw us. _________________ Backpacking stove reviews and information: †Adventures In Stoving Personal hiking blog: †Hikin' Jim's Blog
Except in the Vivian Creek area in the San Gorgonio Wilderness, I look at bearproofing mostly as a matter of bear training; the bears aren't really a problem, and won't be so long as they never learn to get food from backpackers. So I'll always advise my noobs to bring and use bearproof containers. I was surprised to learn from this thread that bears really are active in the Icehouse Canyon area. That's good to know.
I generally advise against bearbagging because in 30 years I have never once seen it done correctly (except at Bearpaw Meadown in Seki, where they had cables put up). It is very, very difficult to do right. If people employ useless bearbagging methods in places, like SoCal, where bears aren't really a problem, they will be in for a surprise if they try the same techniques in the Sierras or Cascades. _________________ The future had clearly gotten out of hand.
Am I the only one who gets sick from springs in the Icehouse Canyon area?
I've never got sick from those springs. and I consider myself to have a weak stomache. _________________ There is no place for me in this world, Chanchito, I don't belong out there and I don't belong here. So I'm going into the wilderness, probably to die. I hope to see you again Chancho, maybe in the next life.
Since giardia seems to be about as common a malaise in California as leprosy, I have long been convinced that the evangelism of the importance of water filtering is a product of the water filter manufacturing industry, as well as retailers like REI.
There was a link here or at SummitPost to a recent scientific survey on water quality in the California backcountry, and they found almost no dangerous micro organisms in the water anywhere in the state. I wish I can find that link. Maybe the water filtering industry suppressed it! _________________ The future had clearly gotten out of hand.
Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 12:52 pm Post subject: Spring below saddle
hillbasher - I don't remember if the small spring or creek below the saddle had water or not. We will be back that way next Saturday. I can check then. This source is always the first to dry up, usually by early summer. So, you can't really count on it.
The water @ Kelly's Camp and the water at the spring below the Ice House Saddle are both gold. Neither should every require filtering. I have never gotten water farther down the canyon where all the people hang out. If I ever was to, I'd more than likely filter that.
The fact of the matter is that most people never get guardia. They get sick from bad hygiene. FACT!!!
Ask yourself this, how come so many hikers on Danali get so called guardia??? The fact is they do not. They get sick from all the human waste in the snow already. BAD HYGIENE!!! Not cleaning themselves properly when taking care of business.
The water filer company's made a big scare in the mid to late 70's and everyone started buying filters. Well let see, who gained from that????
I have been hiking in the Angeles and San Bernardino Mountain since the early 60's and I NEVER used a filter back then. In every location I drank from then I still drink the water without filtering. I have never gotten sick. I just do not gather water in areas where the human populations are the greatest.
I NEVER take water out of the Arroyo. NEVER. To many people playing and doing whatever in the water.
I do not use water in the East Fork unless I gather in above the Bridge to Nowhere. Below the Bridge I don't even bother filtering. I could but why if I don't have to.
In the Sierra's I filter almost any where I gather water. To much of an impact already by man & his animals. _________________ Hike Smart & Hike Safe!!
there is ice cold water coming from the pipe behind the camp..not gushing out but it will fill a water bottle in like a minute..
i was there a few days ago....if you stay ther take bug spray or headnet and a trashbag.....theres lots of trash...next time im there im going to clean up that place... _________________ Solvitur Ambulando
Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 11:39 am Post subject: Water at Kellys Camp?
I am spending the night up at Kellys Camp and have heard there is a water pipe thing that is always running. Is that true? And does anyone know if water is still running out of it after this hot, dry spell?
Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 8:08 am Post subject: Kellys water
I was at Kellys on July 3 and the water pipes (there are two) were still running. †They are located across the camp away from the trail. †Look for a grassy area. †The first pipe has a low flow, but the second would fill a bottle in a minute. By the way, the water does not need filtering. We drink it straight without ill effects. _________________ "It is our task in our time and in our generation, to hand down undiminished to those who come after us, as was handed down to us by those who went before, the natural wealth and beauty which is ours."
Posted: Wed May 12, 2010 1:34 pm Post subject: Water at Kelly's Camp
Has any one been up to Kellys camp recently?
I've heard that they have a pipe with clean water, but when I was up there last year I could not find it. It was getting dark so I didn't look too hard, but I don't want to get stuck with out water again.
Can anyone tell me where the water is located in the camp?
Here's how to find it: †Go as far west as you can while still staying on the flat area upon which Kelly Camp was built. †Once you get to the western edge, you should be overlooking the gully where point "A" is. †Look to your left. †From the left corner of the flat area, you should see a faint †trail heading back into the gully. †It may be covered with snow right now, but usually there's a green patch where the two pipes are coming out of the ground. †Note that there are two different pipes a few feet apart. †The trail doesn't drop steeply in the gully; it contours further left and only descends slightly.
If there's snow, then you're all set. †Just melt snow on your stove.
Posted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 7:35 pm Post subject: Kelly Camp water
We hiked to Kelly Camp today June 12. I was surprised to see that neither of the springs at Kelly had any water. Both pipes were dry. I assume that the underground source of the water is still frozen. There were patches of snow here and there. It would be strange if these springs dried up. Icehouse Canyon creek was rampaging, Columbine had an excellent flow, and there was a small seep running across the trail about half way between the saddle and Kelly.
The volunteer who cleaned up much of the spray paint has also filled in many of the switchback cuts with piles of rocks and logs. Unfortunately, people continue to cut switchbacks. I had words with two of them today.
The visitors center now limits parking to 15 minutes. The lot was empty when we stopped to get our permit. If you are hiking the Bear Flat trail, be prepared to park elsewhere.
We passed a group of blind hikers. The sighted were leading the blind. The leader and the sweep wore orange bibs announcing "Blind Hikers". I have never seen this before. Now I am wondering if I could hike that canyon blindfolded being led by someone else. Hats off to the blind hikers.
Here is pipe #1 at Kelly:
Here is pipe #2:
The pool of water under #2 is snow melt from the slope above:
_________________ "It is our task in our time and in our generation, to hand down undiminished to those who come after us, as was handed down to us by those who went before, the natural wealth and beauty which is ours."
Man, I sure hope the spring is frozen, as you suggest. Springs can suddenly turn off and turn on for a variety of geological reasons. It would really be a bummer if the spring was off permanently, because it helps to make Kelly's Camp my favorite camping site in the San Gabes. _________________ The future had clearly gotten out of hand.
Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 4:46 pm Post subject: Re: Kelly Camp water
We passed a group of blind hikers. †The sighted were leading the blind. †The leader and the sweep wore orange bibs announcing "Blind Hikers". †I have never seen this before. †Now I am wondering if I could hike that canyon blindfolded being led by someone else. †Hats off to the blind hikers.
That is awesome!Truly is amazing when you see such things with clear vision.Amazing what adversity inspires.
Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 9:49 am Post subject: Kellys water
Simonov - We hiked Ontario yesterday. We must have passed on the trail. I made a point of checking Kelly's water and was surprised to see it dry. The first pipe, which never had that much flow, was dry. The water pooling under the second pipe seemed to be oozing out of the ground. Could the pipes have clogged up? I assume that these pipes are left over from the pack station days. If so, they have a lot of years on them. _________________ "It is our task in our time and in our generation, to hand down undiminished to those who come after us, as was handed down to us by those who went before, the natural wealth and beauty which is ours."
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