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Black Diamond Sabretooth Crampons - poor fit

 
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mve



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Location: LA LA Land

PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 6:11 pm    Post subject: Black Diamond Sabretooth Crampons - poor fit  Reply with quote

Well, I've had it with the latest and greatest "best all around" mountaineering crampon -- Black Diamond Sabretooth.

Started out with their "Pro" step-in version and La Sportiva Nepal EVO -- horrible fit -- the toe is sliding side to side due to overly wide toe retainer.  It's almost as if they were made for a telemark type boot with a huge square toe.

Just got their "Clip" version (the one with the rubber strap in the front) for my GF's La Sportiva Trango S EVO and guess what -- it also doesn't fit well! In this case the sharp eyelet where the rubber is attached to the crampon is too low and badly rubbing the side wall of the boot.  In no time there will be a hole in that area.  I am sending them back.

Is Grivel any better?

Poor Fit

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mve



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Location: LA LA Land

PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I checked the new G12 and it looks like they are identical to BD's.  I just found Petzl Charlet Vasak Leverlock and I think they'll be a better fit with Trango's: http://www.rei.com/product/780084

What do you think?
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Taco
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Location: Stuntin in the trap son

PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think that's a bad fit. I'd like to see your boots & pons in person so I can get 'em to fit. AFAIK, there's no reason they shouldn't fit perfectly.

Maybe if we go on a group trip, I can mess with them for you. Sorry I didn't last time.
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mve



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Location: LA LA Land

PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

These are actually my Girl's boots -- we both started out with Nepal's and both had the same issue with severe heel rub -- her's was really bad, so I got her the Trango's and these new 'pons ... but I don't think this is how it should fit.  These are pretty small boots (size 38 ) so maybe that's why ...

Thanks for the offer man -- maybe one of these days ...
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Taco
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Location: Stuntin in the trap son

PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did she use up all the adjustment holes for the rear bails so far? Also, tightened up the center bars?
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mve



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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll try to futz around with them tonight to see if I can somehow smash the front of the boot further into the front strap, but I doubt it will make any diff.  I just ordered G12 from REI (they are back in stock)--  will compare the two hopefully when it gets here ...
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Taco
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Location: Stuntin in the trap son

PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interested in the possible hike/climb this monday-tuesday?
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mve



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Location: LA LA Land

PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 12:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe I'll catch up to you guys on Tuesday?   I can't do an overnight just yet.
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Taco
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Location: Stuntin in the trap son

PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 3:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sure someone will let you share their sleeping bag.... namely Eric.
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mve



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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks guys -- I really appreciate it.  But there's more to it than lack of gear.
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mve



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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I futzed around with both the Clip and PRO versions last night and here's what I found:

- As I suspected there's no way to prevent the Clip version from rubbing the sidewall of the Women Trango S size 38

- The Clip version fits a larger boot just right -- very solid:

These are Clip version -- very solid with this boot

Clip Version SOLID Fit SIDE by SIDE

These are Clip version -- very solid with this boot


- The PRO version sucks ASS even at fitting a large boot -- the front is shifting at least 8mm in each side even when everything is cranked and tighten to the max!  This shit can kill you under "right" circumstances.

PRO version -- Poor Fit (shifting) SIDE by SIDE


I am returning the PRO version and keeping the Clip for now (for my larger boots).  I still have to find the right crampon for my Girl's smaller boots.
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Location: Stuntin in the trap son

PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That was more of a homo-erotic joke than anything. Laughing
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mve



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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shocked  Laughing
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Location: Stuntin in the trap son

PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Damn... still wanna see that in person. 8mm is way too much. Good luck.
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mve



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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep 8mm is really bad and that's with the bigger boot (with my Nepals it was even worse).  I just returned/shipped them back to BC ...

Here's another shoot:

BD-front-shift-AB-stacked

And the front view showing how wide the front retainer is:

BD-front-shift-FRONT

The shifting occurs in two places:

a) the toe of the boot shifts in the retainer clip/bar (depends on the boot size with these 2mm each way)
b) the clip/bar itself shifts underneath the crampon (2mm each way)

Add the two together and you've got a serious wobble there -- from one extreme to the other close to 8mm!

To whomever is reading this later and contemplating getting Black Diamond Sabretooth here is my 2c:

Don't waste your time with the PRO versions -- even with the biggest climbing boot (Spantik) there's a serious (8mm) side to side shifting going on -- get the Clip version they work great with the Spantik.  [EDIT: I really believe that the PRO version is designed for Alpine Touring Boot]

Clip version is designed for a very large sole of a double/plastic boot -- don't bother trying to fit them on a regular single/leather boot -- even if the toe will work for you (the eyelet should not hit the sidewall of the boot) the heel retainers will be way too wide to provide good security.
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Tim
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry for all the troubles you've had with your crampons. My Garmont Towers are a pretty small size but they happen to fit perfectly on my Clip Sabretooths.

I wonder what is the advantage of having the toe welt and bail? These Clip Sabretooths are my first experience with mountaineering boots and having a heel bail wire. Before I was just using G10's with New Classic bindings (all straps) and leather backpacking boots (which seems to fit fine on the Sabretooths). One thing I liked right away with having the heel bail is that it folds down much smaller than the Grivel straps. It was a PITA to fold and unfold those stiff rear straps on the G10.
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mve



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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 10:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tim wrote:
My Garmont Towers are a pretty small size but they happen to fit perfectly on my Clip Sabretooths.


Check your rear retainers -- I doubt they are flush with the heel.  Spantik's are huge and they fit just right.  Here's what it should look like:

These are Clip version -- very solid with this boot

For comparison, here's the same crampon with Trango S (Women Size 38 ) -- poor choice/fit:

DSC_0567

I can't imagine your boots filling up that gap, but I could be wrong  Question
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Tim
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seems okay:




These are 41.5. I guess those 38's are just really narrow? The tabs are on an angle so it seems like if you shorten the crampons enough the boots should eventually jam against the tabs. Also, you probably already know this, but the heel bail wire has two different positions that they can be set to.
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mve



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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 10:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yours fit really well -- it must be the boot size.

Yes I looked at the heel bail wire but in my case case it makes no difference since the tabs are just too wide regardless of how much I move the boot back it's just too narrow to fill the gap.

With Spantik's it's perfect fit both rear/front using Clip version not PRO.
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Location: Stuntin in the trap son

PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 3:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Damn, you guys have some clean gear. All my crap is held together with strings.
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mve



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PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 7:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dude -- I just bought it -- this set is all new.  You should see my last pair of boots -- it looks like it came out of a shredder  Laughing
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ajmedina



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PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So what crampons did you end up using for your girls Evo boots?  I have the same problems trying to find a good fit for my Evo boots.

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